Guest ozzie Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Do they still give you the area QNH on the weather forcast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Absolutely, current forecast for AREA30 (Vic) AREA 30 : AREA FORECAST and TAFs AREA30 (30) ARFOR AMEND AREA FORECAST 250500 TO 251700 AREA 30/32. AQNH AREA QNH 04/07 AREA 30/32: 1017 It's also in TAF for each aerodrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 yes but is it current at the time you need it ?.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Just coupling the above comments with a thread some time ago where depending on the poster an acceptable circuit height ranged from 50 feet to about 2000 feet, it would appear that a dangerous situation now exists - pilots are responsible for their own separationin the circuit, but without the most effective tool other than crayfish eyes and anything from an RPT to a powered chute could be coming at them from any direction. Would it be better, as a group, to get CASA/Airservices to clarify the current regulations on circuit heights and QNH availability, so we were all - GA and RAA and peripherals working off the same base. That may show up some of the black holes which clearly seem to exist in getting critical safety information en route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 yes but is it current at the time you need it ?.................... You should have a current ARFOR and TAF prior to any flight, these forecasts are (generally) valid for a 24 hour period. Based on that, yes it will be current at the time you need it...assuming you have in fact in receipt of a current forecast...which is of course required prior to each flight. PS> This is all fundamental BAK and Navigation knowledge, I would expect anyone who has passed their BAK exam and has a Navigation endorsement would be aware of these requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Sounds like a great idea. Normally if I am flying in my local area I have no problems with controllers or obtaining a QNH. The othe day it would have been nice to get it as I new there was descending traffic above me down to 5000', and I was landing in an area quite different in elev to the one I left 110nm back. Since I was cruising at around 4500' at times, I was more interested in having an accurate QNH to stay away from the 5000' and above level, I did eventually drop down to 3500' due conditions anyway.................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 In the absence of an atis qnh and if the airport was uncontrolled then forcast qnh would be used especially by rpt. the only hassel that would occur would be if a local aircraft was doing circuts and had dialed up airport elevation to get the qnh. but then if hearing an rpt enter then it would be smarts to give him your operating qnh. ozzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Just coupling the above comments with a thread some time ago where depending on the poster an acceptable circuit height ranged from 50 feet to about 2000 feet, it would appear that a dangerous situation now exists - pilots are responsible for their own separationin the circuit, but without the most effective tool other than crayfish eyes and anything from an RPT to a powered chute could be coming at them from any direction.Would it be better, as a group, to get CASA/Airservices to clarify the current regulations on circuit heights and QNH availability, so we were all - GA and RAA and peripherals working off the same base. That may show up some of the black holes which clearly seem to exist in getting critical safety information en route. Pretty simple, all of this information is available in the AIP: Circuit Height: http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/aip/enr/1_1_1-116.pdf An extract from the current AIP regarding Circuit Height: 57.3 Circuit Height 57.3.1 When operating at non−towered aerodromes, the following circuit heights are recommended: a. jets/turbo props/high performance aircraft, 1500FT AGL; b. typically single engine piston, 1000FT AGL; c. ultralights with a maximum speed of 55KTS and helicopters, 500FT AGL. NOTE: High performance aircraft are those that have a normal downwind speed of greater than 120 knots. 57.3.2 Circuit heights for aerodromes which have specific requirements are published in ERSA. Weather Forecast, Availability, Validity etc: http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/aip/gen/3_5_25-36.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Matt, that's fine, but what do you do as atmospheric conditions change en route, or (more rapidly) in the time you are out. It's a long time ago, but I think we even used to reset QNH when we returned into Moorabbin from the training area, using the ATIS and it was often different after an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 t.It's a long time ago, but I think we even used to reset QNH when we returned into Moorabbin from the training area, using the ATIS and it was often different after an hour. Which is why obtaining the latest ATIS is required prior to requesting clearance into a control zone or entering a GAAP. Weather will change, although it's unlikely QNH will change dramatically in a short period of time or sufficient to significantly impact VFR operations in Class G airspace. It is also worth noting that it is necessary to ensure your altimeter is within approved calibration tolerance to ensure that separation standards are maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Let's take Charters Towers (bearing in mind I'm rusty and have yet to bring myself back up to speed on Navs) Looking at the ERSA, it seems there is no ATIS fequency in the town, but two ways of obtaining an area forecast: (a) send a fax - not so easy two hours into a flight (b) dectalk, where the Code for this area is 4411 This seems like a reasonable way to get automatic forecasts all over Australia, but in best Airservices fashion, after: "this page is intentionally blank" (I assume a lot of guys write in and say "Hey, know you've left a blank after page 756, turkeys?"), in Information for Use of Dectalk, the Code is 9442. Is this the system the Major was supposed to have referred to, or what would be the correct procedure fopr approach into Charters Towers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Many other options to get the area and aerodrome forecast: 1. Airservices NAIPS Application 2. Airservices Pilot Briefing website: Airservices Australia -Flight Briefing-Pilot Briefing Services 3. The "Weather" page on this forum http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/view.php?pg=weather 4. The Aviation pages on the BOM site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Remember, I wasn't going to Charters Towers Airport, instead to a cattle property 60 nm South. I can get field elevation out of ersa for CHTowers. Failing that, being an experience ex-skydiver I am capable of accuratly estimating visually, when I am 1000' feet off the ground, give or take a 100 ft or so. My original problem was not that I didn't have an accurate QNH, but that Center didn't give it to me, when I made a ligitimate request. I feel that this thread may be going round in circles now, but it has been thought provoking anyway...................................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Yes Major, I wasn't thinking of using QNH for ground clearance or landing purposes - more for altitude separation and particularly at a town circuit. Matt has pretty much confirmed your gripe was justified, given that his references all apply before the flight starts, and not while you are up there two hours into the flight, in different weather conditions, with the aircraft bucking around and RPT/Ag operations in the circuit area (or in the specific case you describe). It seems to me there is a safety issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 My original problem was not that I didn't have an accurate QNH, but that Center didn't give it to me, when I made a ligitimate request Controllers can't just ignore you. I expect there was simply a radio issue and they couldn't clearly understand your request. Great thread though :thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 yes you might be right Kaz. I could also have been in a radio black spot, although I could recieve them just fine........................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I haven't seen so many people on a thread for a while, so come on comrades, don't be shy, let's hear your experiences, there are people here with good advice to help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Don't worry Turboplanner, I've got a couple of topics in mind when I get time, we'll get em' going again............................................................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Brisbane Centre C0730/09 REVIEW C0016/09 ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERGENCY ALERTING SERVICES NORMALLY PROVIDED BY FLIGHTWATCH ON DISCRETE VHF FREQUENCIES NOT AVBL DUE TO STAFF AVAILABILITY. SERVICES AFFECTED: ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERGENCY ALERTING SERVICES PROVIDED AS A GHOSTING FUNCTION BY FLIGHTWATCH ON DISCRETE VHF FREQUENCIES. 118.95 MANINGRIDA 119.4 BUNDABERG AND TOWNSVILLE 120.1 GOVE 120.7 PERTH 121.1 SYDNEY 121.3 WESTERN VICTORIA 121.6 PORT MACQUARIE, WILLIAMTOWN AND SCONE AREAS 122.1 ARMIDALE, GLEN INNES AND COFFS HARBOUR AREAS 124.0 WALGETT, MOREE, COOLAH AND CAIRNS AREA 124.1 MOUNT ISA AREA 124.95 CENTRAL VICTORIA 128.15 NORTHERN NSW AREA 128.2 WHITSUNDAY ISLAND AREA 128.55 MILDURA 128.75 MAROOCHYDORE/BRISBANE AREAS 133.45 ROCKHAMPTON/GLADSTONE AREAS 134.85 MUDGEE AREA 135.05 SOUTHERN NSW 135.6 EASTERN VICTORIA Does this clarify the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 No, don't see your point. My ERSA for Townsville indicates 120.55 as the Brisbane center freq., as does the two page area/freq indicator brochure put out a couple of years ago for Class G airspace, which I was also referencing as I do when I go cross country. I was inside the Townsville freq area although still around 150nm from Townsville and I was on 120.55. The fact that I sat there for at least half an hour listening to brisbane center talk to other traffic, tells me that the freq was manned and working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basscheffers Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 For what it's worth, I was going to be a bit close to my SARTIME today so asked ADL approach to amend (while in class G) which they did. I ended up rolling off the runway about 30 seconds before my original SARTIME. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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