Thruster87 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Piper Unveils PiperSport LSA This is almost the same as a Zenith 601xl. The wing structure is almost identical as is the rest of the aircraft.The plastic moulding around the cockpit looks very neat compared to the 601xl.Goes to show that the big boys have confidence in the Zenith 601xl design. Cheers:clap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Yeah, just don't tell anybody at Piper, that could be the dealbreaker!i_dunno Do the folk at CSA acknowledge Chris Heintz as the designer? I can't say that I know anything about the wing design of the new Piper, but I just really don't see the likeness - apart from its being a low wing, monoplane, single. That aside, I think she is an attractive little bird and an important vote of confidence in the LSA category. So what's next, a sleek sporty little Beech retractable a la Sting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Pipersport photo Photo of the new baby..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Hi all, now with piper bringing out their LSA, i was thinking,how many different manufactures now produce a LSA? Its must be getting very difficult to sell these aircraft in large numbers, even though alot of them are replacing the old 150/152 type trainers etc. Back to topic- nice looking plane, but with so many choices out there, it will have to have something to make it stand out from the rest. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleemanj Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 601? eh? The Sportcruiser has been around for a while, and I don't think it's much like a 601 at all. There were rumors of Piper buying into CSA a couple weeks back, I posted a news item here about it somewhere, sounds like they have entered into a license deal instead. Here's the rumor post.... http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/aviation-news/70879-piper-looking-sportcruiser-purchase.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleemanj Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Heres a couple of pictures, I've cropped down the PiperSport and flipped the XL one so they are roughly the same to compare with. Looking at the specs, the SportCruiser/PiperSport has more than a foot more wing span, but slightly less wing area, this implies to me as a layperson that there is little similarity in the wing designs. The body is 4 inches wider than the XL and the fuselage is longer. I just don't see "almost the same" here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleemanj Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Video from Piper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster87 Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 Heres a couple of pictures, I've cropped down the PiperSport and flipped the XL one so they are roughly the same to compare with.Looking at the specs, the SportCruiser/PiperSport has more than a foot more wing span, but slightly less wing area, this implies to me as a layperson that there is little similarity in the wing designs. The body is 4 inches wider than the XL and the fuselage is longer. I just don't see "almost the same" here? [ATTACH]9724.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]9725.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]9726.vB[/ATTACH]For those that know a bit about the Fuse/wing structures here are a couple of pics of the piper can't see much diff between the two other then the nose wheel setup and the supporting structure.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleemanj Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I think you're stretching there. The wing structure is similar, but also different. You would expect that any aircraft designer looks at other aircraft designs to see what works, perhaps (maybe likely) the Sportcruiser wing design was influenced by (perhaps improved on) the 601 design, which was more than likely influenced by some other design and so on. That's the nature of the evolution of technology, aircraft included. Third post in this thread is interesting, it points out significant differences in the wing on the Sportcruiser... Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Czech Sport Cruiser Edit to say with a little more Googling: ...American owner Chip Erwin started CZAW in 1992 ... Erwin manufactured parts for and assembled the CH 601 and CH 701 designs of Chris Heintz’s Zenair Ltd ... CZAW’s engineers said the SportCruiser has “no interchangeable parts with the 601.” The SportCruiser represents an “evolved, completely fresh design,” said Defelici. From: http://www.lsaflyers.com/images/sportcruiser_custom_designed_for_americans.pdf So yes, clearly the design draws on the 601 etc, it would be impossible for anybody not to draw on such experience, I don't think you could hold that against the company or aircraft. It's certainly no copy.... "almost the same"? I guess an Elephant is "almost the same" as a Mammoth too, depends on how far you take the weight of inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest becky1 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Hi Everyone, It is a great aircraft,especially now as its going to be marketed as a Piper Sport,we have a Sportcruiser here at Gympie,exactly the same scheme as on the video[red and white],fitted with Dynons,leather upholstery and the whole works. After watching the Piper promotional video,and having quite a lot of hours clocked up in cruisers,everything they are saying about the aircraft is true. Unfortunately for us,the owner of the aircraft here has decided to sell,not enough time to fly. If any of you are interested,in knowing more about Sportcruisers[soon to be Piper Sport]please feel free to PM me. Jennifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopdangler Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Guys, chris Heinz had nothing to do with the design of the sportcruiser/piper sport just as lance neibauer (lancair) had anything to do with the design of the lightning. I've compared a lot of LSA aircraft and piper has indeed bought into a winner here and it will be interesting to see how they intend to market. :big_grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Nice, looks like a sporstar to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKW Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 It will be interesting to see if Piper too, gets 1000 plus orders like Cessna have claimed now that deliveries of the Flycatcher have been delayed. [/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 HI all, it will be interesting, to see how much it is here in OZ, compared with the sportcruiser. I think they said from 119 000 us, then goes up from there.It i guess it does come standard with glass cockpit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnnydelva Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 any news on price in australia? glass cockpit as standard would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleemanj Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 any news on price in australia? glass cockpit as standard would be nice. The Australasian dealership is in New Zealand Aviation firm spreads its wings to Australia | Stuff.co.nz $185,000 NZ which is something around 150 thousand AU at current rates, + taxes/duties of course, so I'd imagine the total is probably closer to 185 AUD by the time you are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 And that's why LSA is starting to sound like Large Savings Account - weLcome to the new GA- we asked for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Buschor Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 To say that the Sporrtcruiser has anthing to do with the Zenith 601 is like saying that the wright brothers " Flier" has a lot in common with the F111. Yes - they are both planes but - yes - they are SOO different !! Both good designs and in the case of the Sportcruiser Is IS a case where Piper could not design their own and adopted it but this does not distract from the Sportcruiser - It truly shows it up for what it is ..- Piper has done a great job to adopt this design. The 601 is also a great plane but NOT one that Piper chose to adopt. Go figure.! The Sportcruiser LOOKS the part !!! The 601 does not in this company. Looks sell. I too would rather have the Sportcruiser than the 601. all things being equal... I hope I haven't stood on anyone's toes!!! fly safe whatever you fly... Walter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleemanj Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 And that's why LSA is starting to sound like Large Savings Account - weLcome to the new GA- we asked for it! Ferrari sells sports cars that are fairly expensive. That doesn't mean you need a lot of money to buy a sports car, there is an abundance of good sports cars for not much money, just not sold by Ferrari. Piper (Cessna, .....) sells LSA that are fairly expensive. That doesn't mean you need a lot of money to by an LSA, there is an abundance of good LSA for not much money, just not sold by Piper (Cessna, ....). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Ferrari sells sports cars that are fairly expensive. That doesn't mean you need a lot of money to buy a sports car, there is an abundance of good sports cars for not much money, just not sold by Ferrari.Piper (Cessna, .....) sells LSA that are fairly expensive. That doesn't mean you need a lot of money to by an LSA, there is an abundance of good LSA for not much money, just not sold by Piper (Cessna, ....). You're right! Simply pointing out in our quest for better, faster stronger,etc we are getting what we want- but it comes at a price- how many thrusters, drifters, and so on do you see at a fly in now compared to $100k plus go fasts? 20 yrs ago a kit built $10k plane was a big investment- not now. The cheapest LSA on the market- good poll question, bet it's not under $50K:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 The Australasian dealership is in New ZealandAviation firm spreads its wings to Australia | Stuff.co.nz $185,000 NZ which is something around 150 thousand AU at current rates, + taxes/duties of course, so I'd imagine the total is probably closer to 185 AUD by the time you are done. If they are anywhere near $185 000 Aus, they wont sell many. A sportstar or a Teccy, is around $160 000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWpilot Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I flew the Sports cruiser early in my training, it is one awesome bird. I LOVED IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnnydelva Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 spoke to Anton the aust/nz dealer, its $148k + GST, for the base model, although the avionics are pretty well spec'd. interested to know people's thoughts compared to the sportstar and texan top class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flyforfun Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Piper Sport update spoke to Anton the aust/nz dealer, its $148k + GST, for the base model, although the avionics are pretty well spec'd. interested to know people's thoughts compared to the sportstar and texan top class... The price obviously will reflect the level of equipment and options, but the Piper Sport comes with a pretty good fitout. Garmin VHF, transponder and GPS, elec. trim on ailerons and elevator, cabin heat and cooling, leather trim, Matco toe brakes on both sides and the rudder pedals are instantly adjustable with the pull of a lever ( no need to adj seat, tho' pads are available to boost height if nec.) There is a factory demonstrator based at Gatton Airpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Baphomet Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Of course the other thing to consider is "Between its founding in 1927 and the end of 2009 the company has produced 144,000 aircraft in 160 certified models, of which 90,000 are still flying.[3]" That's a production history of 83 years, a few of the recent entries would be lucky to have a history of 83 days. Baph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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