Guest chaz Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi All, This is my first post..hope it might be of some help. For many years I have been playing around with GPS's interfaced with computers/laptops and the realtime display of position overlayed on various maps. In recent times small PDAs (personal data assistants or pocket PC's) have become available which also have an integrated GPS receiver built in. The unit which I use for vehicle, marine and aircraft use is the Garmin Ique M5. This is supplied with the City Navigator program which is more suited for vehicle navigation down to street level throughout Australia. For us aviators the bonus is that most of these types of pocket PC's run a special version of Microsoft Windows called Mobile edition. This means that other 'third party' mapping programs can be installed and a large variety of digital maps that are available can be utilized. I currently use a mapping program called Oziexplorer (for the home PC and OziexplorerCE (for the pocketPC) http://www.oziexplorer2.com/ozice/oziexplorerce1.html and I use digital maps from the series.. NatMaps covering all of Australia at scale of 1:250000 http://www.ga.gov.au/nmd/products/maps/raster250k/ There is also a series of aviation maps which I have yet to try... http://www.maptrax.com.au/aeronauticalcharts/ or... http://www.ja-gps.com.au/maps_maptrax_list.html#anchor127925 The following is a screen shot of the M5 displaying the 1:250k NATMAP.. In this pic the GPS is not in navigation mode because the unit was indoors. If there are any other mapping freaks out there interested, I can screen capture some more pics while the unit is receiving GPS data Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi Chaz and welcome. Thanks for the info. I have a Mitac Mio PDA running CoPilot (ironically street level nav only) which I leave in the car all the time. I was thinking about using it in the air, but probably just as a backup to a dedicated flight GPS. I played with OziEx and some other moving map software when I went to Sth America because I could not get CoPilot maps for that continent. I scanned and converted some maps, but in the end I didn't really use it because I didn't drive as much as I thought I was going to (buses are great in Brasil and Argentina, and the roads are crazy). When I start XC training soon, I will evaluate it against a flight GPS and make a (eventually informed) decision on what I want. Thanks for the links - I will check out OziExplorer again in the air. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 So, Chaz (and welcome, BTW), what are you actually saying? That the newer PDAs can support and produce a similar result to dedicated aviation GPS devices? And, Ross, I'm sure many of us would be interested in your evaluation; sounds as tho u also know a bit about the alternative technologies... Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Will do Chris. PDAs with a GPS either built in like mine, or attached by cable or (more frequently these days) wireless via bluetooth, have all the same hardware and processing abilities of dedicated Flight Nav stuff. It generally comes down to the software, the screen size and visibility, and the number of dedicated buttons for ease of use. Mine is touch-screen, so the buttons are mainly virtual (on screen). When I do the complete eval, I'll post my findings and opinions here. Now off to bed because I am off to Cooma at 4:00am again. I love this early morning flying routine. Coming PaulN? Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaz Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Hi Ross, I will be interested to hear your impressions of your flights using the Mitac PDA and Oziexplorer. I find the main shortcoming with the Garmin unit is the brightness of the display. With the unit mounted up near the existing compass, there is considerable incident light reaching the screen from all angles in the Gazelle. This makes it a little harder to read in bright sunlight. I believe this problem is being addressed by some PDA manufacturers who quote 'high brightness' screens in their specs. Hello Chris ! I have been using the PDA for a few months now and it has been a very useful and accurate backup nav aid. Some of the special features included in a dedicated aviation unit such as ground proximity, detailed airfield approach plates are not available. However I have a list of waypoints of all the major airfields, private airfields, local towns and special places loaded while I am using the GPS. It is very simple to initiate a 'go to'. Also for each waypoint you can add a description and include instant information such as runway and circuit directions, altitude, CTAF etc... What I like most about the system is the fact that you can make use of very detailed, colour, topographical maps which really give a good feel for the countryside you are moving over (eg clearings, paddocks within 'tiger' country etc). Also it is quick process to change to a different style of map if you are negotiating controlled air space. For example I have edited the 1:250k map using photoshop and have actually included important boundarys (eg RAAF East Sale) to produce my own customized maps for local and regional flying Cheers Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaz Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Thanks for the welcome Chris S ! Im sure I will enjoy learning and discussing ideas on this excellent web site. My comments to Ross and Chris above may be of interest to you also.. In relation to price, my Garmin M5 was around $1200, however there is an Asus unit around $600...I will be doing some research and enquires on that model to see how it shapes up. As for freeze ups and problems (typical computers !!).....yes occassionly I have had to reboot the system. This only takes a minute and you are back in action again. But this has not been a matter for concern. Cheers Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barandbrew Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hi Guys I have been using an IPAQ PDA with flashcard GPS for some years now. I use Oziexplorer and VTC and WAC charts I purchace over the net. The IPAQ is good in direct sunlight and backlit when needed. The screen size is the only drawback (eyesight not as good as it used to be) But the system works great and fits easily in small planes like the Sapphire. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galpin Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I am confused!! There is much talk about GPS, IPAQ & PDA, maps etc etc. That's fine, but can anybody point forum members toward a simple, yet comprehensive article(s) which deal with this area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barandbrew Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hi Chris My IPAQ PDA hase a mobile phone inbuilt and runs basic computer programs. I also have a road navagation program inbuilt alowing me to transfer the unit from car to plane it smaller and more conveniant than most moving map GPS units. So the one small unit is a mobile phone, GPS,address book,small computer,calculator,voice note taker and more. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barandbrew Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Chris My unit is a Hewlett-Packard IPAQ hw6515 I have owned two IPAQ's and both have performed faultlessly There are many other brands available but I have no personal experience with them. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perry Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Folks, Great thread. I have been using Oziexplorer with both Natmaps and VTC's for over a year now. This software is worth every cent of the $120 odd that I paid for. Maptrax in Cairns emails you fresh VTC's for $5 per map - absolute bargain! I however went for a different option for flight. I size, print and laminate my route plan onto pages that slip into my knee board for easy reference - whatever the power system is doing. This takes care of map reading. I also used to drop the route plan onto my Garmin II+ and follow the needle. Now having secured a Lowrance Airmap 600C with terrein avoidance from Oshkosh - this only set me back about $600. I drop the route onto the SD Card for the GPS and have an aviation moving map that is quite legible that is splashproof (I am a triker where we get the elements in the cockpit). This works pretty well. Next I would like to replace the kneeboard with a tablet notebook such as a miniaturised Panasonic Toughbook - however this seems to be way too costly... Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnprop Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 GPS Units Hi guys, On our road trip to Wings Over Wagga I set up and tested a moving map system on my PDA that some of the glider pilots use. See www.soarmn.com/cumulus/pdagps.htm The hardware consists of a coloured screen Dell Axim X5 which I already had. I imported a Bluetooth GPS (EMTAC S3-BTGPS, www.emtac.com) from www.gpsnow.com in the USA at a cost of $135 USD incl postage. The GPS includes a dual cable to power both GPS and PDA from a cigarette lighter outlet. I attached the GPS to the back of the PDA with velcro but they could both be attached to a kneeboard. The software is Pocket FMS www.pocketfms.com which for a donation of $60 USD provides high resolution Air Services like nav maps for Australia and NZ. Nav software updates are monthly and free. The setup worked flawlessly tracking us along the Hume Highway. When we approached an airfield eg. Bankstown, Winton the PDA sounded a "bell" and a window opened on the screen with the message " x minutes to Bankstown etc, contact Brisbane on freqency .... Cheers Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barandbrew Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Chris The MapTrax VTC and WAC charts are identical to Air Services . The PDA using oziexplorer displays them as moving maps so they are a great nav backup John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Thanks for the link JohnProp. PocketFMS looks to be exactly what I was looking for. I have downloaded the PC part and had a quick play. Chris, when I've had a good look and have more time I will provide some more info on how it works. Basically though, you fire it up on your PC, download all the area data and weather data, put together a flight plan, submit it if desired, download everything to your PDA and go flying! Seems to have at least 90% of everything a dedicated flight GPS has, but much cheaper, easier to manage and more versatile. The software is free too - but you get a better way of downloading the area data and keeping up to date it you donate. More later. Gotta get some sleep to get to Cooma by 5:30am. Wouldn't be dead for quids. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dahl Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 pocket fms v's ozexporer To those who have used both, which program would you prefer between ozexplorer and pocket fms? To get the most out of pocket fms you need to donate $60 us (for the better maps although you can use it free of charge fully working) and ozexplorer you have to buy maps, so I guess they both run at around the same cost... which software would you prefer for ease of use in the cockpit ect? thanks, Dahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dahl Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Hey Chaz, in your previous post you mention doing some research and enquires on the asus pda to see how it shapes up. have you come to any conclusion? I am thinking of buying a "ASUS MyPal A636 GPS PDA". and am just looking for any feedback before I buy. thanks, Dahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxamos Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Pocket FMS Yeah I have been using Pocket FMS for nearly a year ( although not for many long distance flights) and have found it to be very good. I use it on my IPAQ and mainly use it as a reference, (ie; to assist my standard flight plan and WAC, etc) and think that it is great. The price is the big winner, especially if you allready have the pocket pc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perry Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Comparison Notes Folks, I have been using Oziexplorer for sometime and gave Pocket FMS a test drive as well. I still have a bent toward Oziexplorer now as I am well used to it. First of all, note that I do not use a PDA but rather download waypoints and routes to either Garmin GPSII+ (an older one but bulletproof) and a Lowrance 600C with terrein avoidance. I also print and laminate map sections after plotting the route for use in my kneeboard as per the old rule of having a backup. I usually follow the maps on the kneeboard with a watch on the GPS for heading and track. In a trike I have found the need for a bigger screen to be able to follow with ease during bumpy conditions where glare becomes an issue - hence following the laminated map sections. I preferred Oziexplorer as I do not use the VTC's and WAC's whilst flying a trike - I prefer the topological maps generated by Geoscience Australia in the for of Natmap Rasters - these give me better features for low altitude flying in a trike. I also print off sections of the VTC's for the area (Sourced from MAptrax in Cairns for $5 per map) to give me visibility of the Control Zones. The only drawback of the Oziexplorer suite is the fact that it does not afford route planning with your aircraft stats incorporated - I need to export and draw up a flight plan using a simple application (Ultranav - $50 from Aerial Pursuits if you need the ERSA sites). Again I print and laminate for the kneeboard. The benefits of this is that my route planning is fairly time consuming and this conditions me to a level of rigour around planning my route as I can flick between different map formats and even export to Google Earth to get a better perspective. Should I move to a PDA I am sure I will give both another look to find the most appropriate for display on a PDA. Note the ASUS 636 has now been surpassed by the 639 that offers a decent upgrade of over 1GB of additional onboard memory with minimal increase in price. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dahl Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Thanks Perry, from what you have said I think maybe Pocket FMS might be my best direction to start with, in that you can input aircraft data ect but I also like the fact that you can use airservices maps with OZIexplorer. I have downloaded the Pocket FMS software and played around a little on my PC but it is hard to get a good idea of what it can do until I am able to become mobile. In regards to PDA's, from everything I have read I like the ASUS pda with inbuild GPS. The best price I have found for the 636 is $753 with co-pilot 6 road nav software included (about $550 without). the 639 model has 1 gig memory which is a big bonus but being a new model (FEB 07) its hard to find a bargin;). thanks again Perry, and if anyone has had anything to do with the ASUS pda all input would be much appreciated! Dahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perry Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Folks, Whilst sitting out the rain here in NQ I have been surfing a bit. Whilst checking out the RAM mounts for a new camera fitting I happened across some of the latest gadgets in the US. I found them to be available here in Oz. Step aside PDA....enter micro computer! Before you rush out to buy the latest PDA, ASUS have recently entered the market with what can only be described as something between a PDA and a Tablet Notebook - a 7" monitor with wireless everything including a GPS in the form of the R2H. See the following site for details: http://www.tegatech.com.au/products/umpc/index.htm Note that this site retails them for $2199, however, if you compare prices on Shopbot, you can snap up a full bundle with foldable keyboard and external DVD drive for under $1900. The Fujitsu unit is much more expensive at over $3,000! This machine is quite impressive as it will convert from your travelling PC to your moving map and it is compact enough to adorn your cockpit. I intend snapping one up at the end of the FBT year as I can legitimately use it as a travelling notebook for work - this could nearly halve the net cost for me. I can run the full Oziexplorer on such a machine. With regard to mounting the units in an aircraft, check out RAM Mounts in the USA - I was blown away by the number of options available from heavy duty suction cups for mounting on the canopy through to handlebar mounts (looks great for triking). http://www.ram-mount.com/ Ian - any chance of you setting up a dealership in this area as the local pricing seems a bit scary? Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnprop Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 PocketFMS to go subscription - life long discount for donors before 31/3/07 I have received the following from PocketFMS and have posted it for the information of members. I gain no benefit financial or otherwise from doing so. Safe flying Clive "PocketFMS has come a long wayfrom its humble beginnings where Rob Weijers started to write a small tool to help him with his ATPL flight training. In the years since then, PocketFMS has grown to become a leading Pocket PC based aviation navigation and flight planning The Airspace database for much of Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and many other parts of the world has been completely reviewed and updated - it contains entries that are found in no other NavDatabase, even in databases produced by leading NavData providers. Ultralight strips, waterdromes, private strips, beacons, air spaces - they're all there and rapidly growing in number and detail! PocketFMS now takes the next leap forward in its development, with the appointment of its first fulltime staff member. Marcel 'Nosegear' Knol, co-founder of the PocketFMS Foundation, This will bring many significant improvements such as having an even more accurate and reliable NavDatabase, even quicker support, and more frequent and larger improvements to the functionality of PocketFMS. PocketFMS can no longer remain Donationware. Since less than 5% of our users have ever made a donation over the past 3 years we'll have to switch to a subscription based system where you can become a Member of the PocketFMS Foundation in order to be able to use PocketFMS. Life long discount for Donors. The programs, hi-resolution background maps, 2-hourly NavData updates and all other benefits will remain free to Members of the Foundation, but PocketFMS will cease to function once the yearly subscription has expired. This subscription comes at an annual price of €150 (approximately US$ 190). However, since many users have made a donation over the years and/or have contributed to improving the quality of the NavData, we feel obligated to have a special reward for these loyal supporters. We have therefore decided that everyone who has become a Donor before March 31, 2007 will have a 50% discount on the yearly subscription price – for the rest of his life! More information? We are about to see major improvements in all aspects of PocketFMS. Via the Content Delivery System (CDS) that's built into PocketFMS Desktop, via the forum, the website and the mailing list we will provide you with further details." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dahl Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 wow, so what do you think johnprop, even half of $190 us per year with the donation for Pocket FMS still makes it fairly expensive software, is it worth it? Dahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dahl Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 does anyone know a way of putting an electronic copy of ERSA from the airservices website onto a PDA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 There's a soft copy on their website? Point me to it and I'll tell you how to put it on a PDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dahl Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 here is the link to the online ERSA http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/aip.asp?pg=40&vdate=15-Mar-2007&ver=2 thanks, Dahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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