skippydiesel

ALL good! There was a wing lift devise, at The Oaks, a few weeks back, being used for the very work you describe.😈

Hi PureCaboose, If you are located at YMIG, as your details suggest, you should know that you have no less than two very experienced Jab maintainers at The Oaks, who I am sure can answer your question with the appropriate authority. Contact me through the personnel system, if you would like to proceed down this path.😈

Isn't voyeurism some sort of crime?😈

Wing Removal Nothing is ever simple - my Sonex has wing tanks and although the spar's are only secured with two bolts, they are difficult access/remove and a nightmare to replace - then there is the actual wing removal/replacement - best done with three people, can get away with two. I would also expect that the Sonex aluminium skinned wing would be more prone to damage than the composite Europa wing. Sonex have the Onex which is/can be built with a wing fold mechanism. Overseas Purchase Bit costly to inspect/have a demo flight and then there is the freight & import costs. I guess if I had a trustworthy agent in the country of sale, it may have been an option, subject to overall cost considerations. Anyhow & happy with my Sonex😈

It is true! - pilots come in all shapes & sizes😈

Its a long story during CV19 period, which complicated going on inspections. I particularly wanted a Rotax 912 ULS powered aircraft, preferably a Europa XS - Jab available but never went down this track. My first attempt was likly the closest I came to a purchase - short window of semi freedom during CV19, drove The Oaks - SE Qld. Europa XS, with most of the bells & whistles, looked great. Demo flight, with demo pilot, I became CO sick. One hour demo aborted after 20 minutes. Owner knew all about the CO problem - had not divulged this little gem. I, very angry, ended negations. Later found out, fix fairly straightforward - "act in hast, repent at leisure" - such is life. Second - never actually saw the aircraft, a Classic, owner builder (RAAF pilot) when informed I did not have my Tail Wheel endorsement (do now) - ended phone/email conversation. Last - XS conventional tail (tri gear) dragger. Aged owner builder, under pressure from family to sell. Made two inspection visits to southern NSW. Made a bid, accepted. Owner had cataract surgery & withdrew the aircraft from sale - such is life. Europa's don't come on the market that often, so the above, including several dead ends, took a bit over 2 years During my Europa journey I had great help from Europa UK & from the man I came to think of as Mr Europa Australia (I believe he owns two). My Sonex , popped up during my on line searches. In many ways a metal Europa. Wish I had the easily removable wings - would solve my hanger availability problems. Sonex is a great little aircraft, very happy with her.😈

"A Europa is the best all purpose light aircraft ever designed...................................... " As a long time admirer/supporter of Europa (I tried very hard, over 2 + years ,to purchase one of the very few that came up for sale in that particular calendar period) I have to say that I almost agree with you effervescing just a "little" exaggerated description "Nobody is able to afford my invoice, self included, for formatting everyone's data sets for them. We are all in Big School now wearing Big Pants playing with Big Toys reading Big Books" The problem I have with those who tantalise, with partial advise/recommendations/ observations, is that it smacks of a weird sort of elitism - why not go the whole hog & complete the job. So often accompanied or followed by slightly demining language . Sad realy, fortunately only arises very occasionally.😈

Do you happen to know, which of the three, currently available, Kitfox are you building? If intersted the following may assist with your background knowledge; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denney_Kitfox https://kitfoxaircraft.com/our-story/ Their claim to "...... 100% USA manufactured." fails to acknowledge the Austrian origins of he Rotax power plants. Not an unusual claim in the current USA marketing psyche😈

Really! How interesting. I assume there have been significant changes, to the original airframe (that I had a ride in about 1991) to accomodate such an increase in hp - do tell😈

"The Mono is what it is; factory kit build with no special extra bells and whistles attached........" Not exactly what I would see as enthusiastic promotion of the Europa line (an aircraft I have long admired). "The person wanting to compare can learn how to create a data column as a self development exercise." Nor a very helpful response to the " In comparison,..." you seemed to be offering but did not deliver on. 😈

Sorry - had my wires crossed. Any rational for fitting the 916 to the Kitfox?😈

Area-51, If your doing a comparison, it may be helpful to have a second column with the performance of the Jab being considered. Just saying Would I be correct in thinking the Europa XS (Mono) has better performance again? 😈

Fair enough. Dont know about the US however in Australia the builder can nominate any TO weight he/she feels is appropriate. NOTE: Most builders will go with the factory recommended Max. Speculation on the Jab 230D/J430 fitted with standard Jab 120 hp engine; I am not sure that your example serves your argument well. I would suggest the 4 seat variant, will have marginal TO performance, with 4 adult Pax on board. Then there are high density altitude days, that may make the marginal TO performance close to lethal 😈

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about MOSAIC and what it takes for an aircraft builder to allow higher take-off weight. Seems to me that for any aircraft, big & small, there will be a safe Max TO weight that is not determined by legislation, economics, customer service or the sales department but by the limitations of physics. If your aircraft is at this limit , thats it!😈

You would thinks so. From very imperfect memory, there have been at least one known suicide by passenger laden aircraft - think European and several others where suicide suspected but not 😈

Dont know where you are getting your information - Try https://www.flyrotax.com/p/products/engines The 912UL (80 hp) has 2000 hr TBO😈

True o king of Lycoming BUT there is a MUCH smaller turbo normalised Rotax called the 914. Amongst Rotax lovers, the 914 was much favoured for trans Alp/ Pyrenees/ Amazon/Rocky flying At first glance the Rotax 916 seems to be a tad over the top for such a lightweight/STOL type airframe. I admit I don't know what changes may have been done to the Kitfox design, since it first came out with the 80-100 hp variant, to accomodate 160hp or for that matter what useful attributes, such a large engine, may confer on the aircraft.😈

I was hoping with my ???? you would expand on this statement😈

Sounds like something the Yanks might do😈

?????????????😈

Check out E-Prop. I don't have one but they have been receiving pretty constant good reviews. https://e-props.fr/ "Nor does the gearbox like a heavy propeller" - the biggest issue is not so much weight (there is a max recommended?) prop balance is the biggest issue.😈

FYI - My Sonex Legacy, not quite completed plans built, came from Leongatha, Gippsland. The converted caravan/aircraft carrier, came in useful, as was used to transport the Sonex all the way back to The Oaks, NSW. There seems to be a "flock" of Sonex in Vic / SA. 😈

Rotax 916 -160 take off hp. A long way from the early Kitfox, which if memory serves, was Rotax 80-100 hp. I went up in one based at Temora, a squillion years ago - fantastic! I had a quick brows of the Kitfox web site- which Kitfox are you building? 😈

I think I did support Jab - nothing to do with being Australian, its just a good solid aircraft. That does not mean that, in my experince, there are aircraft that are better handling, faster & slower & more fuel efficient, all at the same time. I crashed my Zephyr and was unwilling to go through an extended repair period - flying being much more to my liking than building. The new owner has put her back in the air. I tried to purchase a Faeta in Australia. I even bid on an overseas one. Cost and circumstance were against me - much to my regret. I then spent about 2 years pursuing Europa XS aircraft, without luck. I even modified a caravan into an aircraft carrier, in anticipation of the Europa purchase. I wasn't looking at Sonex, when the one I have now came up - price & performance pretty much as I wanted. I had to compromise on the detachable wings, the devils measurement system and the construction material (metal) having a strong preference for composite. My Sonex: Can cruise considerably faster than both the Faeta or Virus SW, for similar fuel econamy. Its stall is also faster (similar to a Jab) so I have lost that incredible short field landing of the ATEC. It noisier inside, than a composite aircraft. For the first time I am routinely using an ANC headset. Handling is terrific, thats if you like supersensitive. Being neutrally stable/designed for aerobatics, its not what I would call a benign platform - departures from straight & level flight develops quickly. Unlike the Zephyr/Faeta, which have glide performance much like a glider, the Sonex with short stubby wings has comparatively poor glide performance - something that has taken me quite a long time to be comfortable with in my approach to landings. With 97L of usable fuel, my Sonex has a similar (3 L less) duration, at the same power setting as both ATEC & Virus SW. Has less payload than the ATEC, similar to the Virus SW & space is at a premium. Its okay though- I packed it to go to Frogs Hollow Fly IN - got everything stowed for two nights camping, within W&B - VR failed so I could get there. Has a 4in (100mm) tail wheel - it doesn't like soft surfaces and I lack the confidence, at this time, to use full power to lift the tail, when things get a bit bogged down. In short, I am happy with my Sonex Legacy/Rotax 912ULS/Airmaster CS. No aircraft is perfect, its what you are content with.😈

Jabs are great and a big bang for the cost compared with most others. If you want something that has a similar stall to a Foxbat (32 Knots) , can fly a lot faster than a Jab (100-120 Knots) check out ATEC Faeta 27-135 KN & Pipistrel Virus SW, about the same performance. I have never flown a Virus SW however the Faeta and its older slower sibling, the Zephyr are very very nice to fly - far nicer (in my opinion) than either the Jab range or Foxbat. The Rotax powered Faeta & Virus SW will econamy cruise at about 120 knots for a fuel burn of around 13-14L/hr ULP. Both Faeta & Virus have about 300 kg empty weight - Faeta 600 kg TO Virus SW 472.5 kg and can carry 100L ULP. The principal of ATEC recently died, so I don't know if new aircraft are available - if not check out the preloved market (Europe nearly always has a few for sale - don't forget to add the cost of shipping/import). Note : EU Faeta may have smaller fuel capacity & lower TO weight. Pipistrel was bought out by Textron (American) and suddenly (without apparent engine/aerodynamic changes ) the Virus SW went from a 27 Knot stall - High speed cruise of 135 knots (NASA CAFE Competition figures) to Stall not given - High speed cruise of 160 Knots???? If you drill down a bit the Cruise comes back to a slightly more be believable 147 Knots (still a tad on the high side). The Faeta was always much cheapener to purchase than the Virus SW. 😈