Teckair

Labor have said the illegal immigrant boats are Tony's fault, if they said it, then it must be true.

 

 

If its on the Internet it has gotta be true.

 

 

i hit power wires the plane was repaired by l2 lame at shepparton with these problems he sighned it out neil

With any problems you are not satisfied with you need to contact your area rep if you are not happy with the result you could contact another one from a different area.

Richard.

 

 

when i made a writen compaint to raa about a level 2 lame just a civil mattermy plane was was being used for abitno training

holding my self acountable as to the storch not being in a safe flyable condition

 

as the person that had sighned the maitainence release had sighned it out with bent engine frame tear in leading edge of wing bent rudder peddles no weight and ballance done after repair not rigged right egt not working flap indercator not working crack in windscreen

 

i took it out off service

 

flying hours 270 from march o7 aug 07 while on line at shepparton at this time shepp had 2 gazelles ctw and jab all online

 

talk about pass the buck no dont get me started on accountabilty responsabilty

 

legal action seems to be the in thing these days

 

it is no wonder that i am geting phone calls about repaires done to planes that are ilegal and down right dangerous who i the hell cares not me says the seller it is sighned out as airworthy or somebody said it was a good buy

 

i could have sold my plane after it was repaired and not told the buyer that the plane had problems

 

put it into a flying school then the school crashes it their problem

 

as for the raa to write to me and say civel matter not on

 

8th sept roll on court day the action begins neil

Was this a plane you had bought and the L2 had signed the Aircraft Condition Report with those things wrong with it?

 

 

Im sorry i didnt realise i was "arguing" but yes concidering i done a couple of thou hrs in them i might have a bit of an understanding of how they fly, i started off just pionting out that this part of a post from "teckair" " I thought if you failed to maintain sufficient rotor speed to flair or got the timing of the flair wrong you could have a problem." was incorrect as you connot control the rpm once you are in the air.So obviously i am coming over wrong so i will step out of this and let you go forward with it. Becuase im sure you would have pionted out something i said wrong about a FW wouldnt you.

You are responding to Winsor with that, I bowed out in post 16 and accepted what you had said.

 

 

Not wrong 'pal' ... just out of your depth when arguing against a Gyro Pilot (bones) and Graeme who flies Gyro and PPC... always good to increase your knowledge of such things...

Exactly it was time to bail on that.

 

 

If this is the same gyro crash im thinknig of

 

Not sure. it was on the news as engine failure and he was removed in a chopper. OK looks like I was wrong dead sticks are dead easy in a gyro and no word about needing to practice them either.

 

 

I not heard of any back injuries in the gyro world in the last few years that come to mind, if it is done right, or even close to right, there is no risk of danger to pilot or machine, before i sign off a student to go solo they must perform a 360* turn power off from 600' and land with motor on idle, and the difference between idle and engine off is bugga all in performance of the craft.In relation to this accident, i have not heard any thing further about it, but looking at the photo, i would guess he got it down good, and then its fallen over in the mud, thus smashing the blades.

A few years back a gyro lost power near Watts Bridge the result was back injuries and a rescue helicopter the TV footage showed fairly clear terrain. I know competent pilots can do it but I felt some posts on this thread have over emphasised how easy it is. Yes I agree this guy seemed to get down good and said that in my first post. I thought if you failed to maintain sufficient rotor speed to flair or got the timing of the flair wrong you could have a problem. I felt to get these things right you would need to stay current with the practice. I thought the comments on how easy it is to do were inaccurate.

 

 

A gyro is in Auto Rotation at all times, that is how they fly. Possibly got something to do with the name often used for these machines.. autogyro.They are one of the easiest and safest machines ( besides a PPC) to land engine off.

Graeme.

How an autogryro flies, I did know that pal, as far as PPC and Autogyro being easy to land power off tell that to the people that ended up with back injuries.

 

 

Well, he found himself in a bit of a sticky situation but was fortunate that autogyros are able to land easily despite a loss of power; hopefully the media won't throw mud at the pilot over the incident.

My understanding is it is not easy to auto rotate a gyro without power and you will not be able to do it if you don't practise it. Full marks for this guy as he was unhurt.

 

 

Absolutely you do and we intend to have the suggestions with options published in advance in the Sport Pilot mag with the reasons supporting them and put to the Board as a special resolution at the AGM.

I suggest all thinking people should read the next magazine with the above suggestions and plan their course of action. Remember if you do nothing you have no right to complain about RAA problems or issues.

Richard.

 

 

Absolutely you do and we intend to have the suggestions with options published in advance in the Sport Pilot mag with the reasons supporting them and put to the Board as a special resolution at the AGM.

What is required to provide the support? Do we need to attend the AGM? If so where and when is the AGM? Can people who cannot attend the AGM still provide support?

Richard.

 

 

However we the remaining members of the CRC (tragically David Hunt now deceased) had agreed to proceed independently on a few critical matters on which we will need your voting support at the AGM. Will you support us?

 

Yes but would need to know what I was supporting.

 

 

You mean getting six State and two Territory independent Police Forces each to make a special exception? I wouldn't call that easy.ATSB isn't charging GA pilots for investigations.

Maybe you are right and the police involved are just plain useless and unhelpful, but they shouldn't be when it is a safety issue. Probably if we could get one or two states on side then the rest would follow suit, I would like to know has anybody even tried? All they have to do is email the investigation results to RAA if this can't be done then the whole deal is a sad joke.

ATSB may not be charging GA pilots but will still have to work within a budget which is not likely to be expanded to accommodate RAA pilots any time soon.

 

 

All very nice in theory to want ATSB to investigate RAAus accidents. They don't even investigate all GA accidents. IF that was done expect your fees to go up by about $500 per annum. The very essence of RAAus operations is low cost with min exposure to 3rd party risk and personal risk limited to the pilot and one other "informed' person. CASA and the members here should realise that. What you ask for, will cost, Nice to have but the cost/benefit would be unjustifiable. No-one else will want to fund it, and the user pays principle is a reasonable rule to expect. Nev

This thread was started in regard to the function of the RAAus board and RAAus employees, apparently things are not as they should be with employees not functioning as they should. One way or another this has to be addressed.

ATSB probably not the answer but do we really need them? Fatal accidents are investigated as things currently are. The police with the assistance of RAA as required carry out investigations, the problem is we do not have access to the results of the investigations. Maybe the ATSB would do a better job but as Nev said probably not the way to go. If we had access to the results of the investigations which currently occur surely that would be much better than what we have at the moment. This should not be a big expense or difficult to make happen, our team at Canberra should be able make this happen.

 

Richard.

 

 

I have known of a person declaring an aircraft not safe to fly at one time when I felt certain the person was blaming their own shortcomings on the aircraft. I have known of 6 Chinooks which have been flown safely consistently over an extended period of time (mine has done more than 1300 hrs over 30 odd years).

 

 

The ATSB, with its limited resources, only investigates incidents that have the greatest safety outcome, mainly for the general public. So they tend not to investigate any RAA incidents and some GA incidents that are inherently high risk such as those involving aerobatics.My guess is that the Old Bar incident did have the potential to impact on quite a few of the general public and so was investigated. An incident involving somebody practising aerobatics (GA) out in a training area will probably not be investigated, but an aerobatic incident at an air show probably will.

 

As RA flyers we can only carry on passenger, we're not allowed in controlled airspace, and we fly very low weight aircraft so the risk to the general public is perceived as lower...therefore investigations are left up to the police/coroner who are legally required (I think?) to investigate any death.

I think most of us understand that is what currently happens but what is not understood is why the result of the investigation that does happen is kept secret. To me this is stupid beyond belief, this is a very important safety issue that is being denied RA pilots and their families for no good reason other than, 'oh that's just the way we like to do things'. How difficult would it be to have accident investigation results included in the members magazine package but separate to the magazine? or sent to flying schools?

 

 

In theory that would be a good idea problems could include

 

The selection process, how can it be determined that no RAA personnel know the applicant?

 

Who would the RAAus Ombudsman be accountable to?

 

Who decides if the job is being done as it should?

 

Would someone with no knowledge of aircraft and all that is associated with the same be able to make good decisions without having to seek advise from aviation involved parties who may have their own interest in mind?

 

Richard.

 

 

I don't see how there can be any lessons learned from this and other accidents unless we are informed of the results of the accident investigations. Until that happens people are only speculating and being told not to do so. The police do the investigation with assistance as required from RAA and for whatever reason the results are not revealed, as a result we do not learn from each accident what has gone wrong. There appears to have been a series of high impact fatal crashes and because of our backward system nobody knows why except the people who did the investigations and who they report to maybe a coroner? It occurs to me our team at Camberra should be working to change this as it is an important safety consideration. People could be getting killed again and again for the same reason unnecessarily just because the system has failed them.

 

Richard.

 

 

It is a bit hard to say much at this stage with so little known about what happened, being a new trike mechanical failure seems less likely, with the fire most likely did not run out of fuel, weather would have to be really bad to prevent him from reaching Temora airstrip 2 or 3 klms away.

 

What I find to be a continuing disappointment these deadly crashes are often occurring on what appears to be fairly clear terrain where a emergency landing or at the worst a low impact crash landing should have been possible.

 

Richard.

 

 

My Son-in-law Kevin has just (in the last hour) landed at Taree in the Morgan Sierra so I have asked him to mention it to Gary.Not sure which engine would now be suitable but there must be something around.

What do other Forumites think of the idea???

 

Alan.

I reckon let Tomo do some more flying in it and see if there was any reason it was not flown for some time.

 

 

I'd say that the general area of the accident is more toward largeish boulder size and plenty of them. Didn't the BRS inflate on deployment and the wind dragged the aircraft some distance also hitting another large boulder?

The way the report read the BRS was not deployed but deployed itself on the initial impact which was when the occupants died. My understanding is the angle of arrival did the damage however I maybe wrong because as we know what causes RAAus accidents is not revealed. It is pity this problem is not actively being addressed instead some other activities RAAus concentrates on like how to become more like GA.

 

 

In fairness, the report did make it clear that there may have been hidden objects that impacted the nosewheel causing the rollover. It may not be poor airmanship, it may be bad luck of not seeing a rock in the proposed landing strip. It was not as if they coud do a go-around at low level to survey the field.It could be the old "Human factors" component of your field of view reducing to +/- 6 degrees in stressful situations.

The report said they died instantly on impact. Not seeing a rock in a emergency landing area should not kill you, if I thought that was the case I would not get in a plane.

 

 

Especially the one about how they had the engine stop, which many here consider a breeze, AND FAILED TO MAKE A FRIGGING FORCED LANDING FROM ALTITUDE.

This is another one of those accidents that makes me think people do not put enough importance on practising glide approaches.

 

 

I think they would thermal very well. At 20 knot stall speed you could work the thermal flying 25 knots giving you a very tight radius to stay in the core where there is greatest lift. Its like going up in a fast elevator watching the earth get smaller and smaller.

Yep they would but with a glide ratio of 10 to 1 (which I think would be about right) it would be hard to get far.