Teckair

Its a bit sad really someone has gone to a fair bit of trouble there.

Yep I would prefer to know what is going on and why.

Great thanks guys! So I believe having the flaps down slightly will have the same affect as a twisted wing right?

The purpose of my posts was to try and make youngster, who is at the learning stage, a safe pilot and backup what smokeybear had said about being able to glide to safe landing area in the event of an engine failure.

I hate it when I see news footage of an aircraft that has hit the ground hard, in what looks like a clear area, with injuries or loss of life. Lately we have had a few too many of these accidents. Recently we had a double fatal accident involving an instructor and student near here.

Rightly or wrongly I feel pilots do not put enough importance on being able to survive an engine failure eg flying over areas where a emergency landing can be done and being able to do it if needed. This is not just RAAus pilots but ASRA and GA as well (basicly any one flying for fun). I have not felt this is a short coming with RAAus management ( I don't know about the others) but rather an attitude problem amongst too many pilots. Once I was flying low over the Adelaide hills in a 172 with a GA instructor when I asked him where we would go if the engine stopped his answer was "if you don't talk about it it won't happen" and luckily it didn't that time.

This opinion in regard to RAAus pilots has been formed by the results (crashes) and some pilot BFRs. With BFRs I try too help people to become safe pilots, as with all training, I regard the BFR as a review not a test and an opportunity to sort out any problems the pilot may have in flying safely including keeping up with latest rule changes in flying operations. I think it was a mistake to talk about individual flight training experiences on this public forum.

I hope this conveys the intention, reason and spirit my posts were made with.

Regards Richard.

Teck. Mate. I'm dumbfounded. First you express disappointment in the regularity of post engine failure accidents. Then you post the above. Why bother sitting in the plane with someone for a bfr? Here you have a chance to make a difference, and you palm the problem off to the next guy and hope he does his job. You have a duty of care mate, it's a flIght review. How's about staying with them and making sure they get it right. Wot the f are you doing sitting in the right seat with that attitude. God help the raa if there's instructors like that getting around.

Anyone I teach to fly can do glide approaches and is safe. Why do think I make comments on here about more of a priority on this issue? I sat in the plane with a guy for 6 hours and could not stop him from doing powered approaches because that is what he was used to and just was not comfortable not using power. Trying to undo these sort of problems is way more difficult than some imagine.

It should be obvious from the flavour of the posts on here most people are happy to come up with excuses on why you don't need to do glide approaches. As far as I am concerned as part of the BFR if I demonstrate to the pilot they have weakness in that area and they need to address it, the ball is in their court I will help them if they choose. But essentially it is up to them mostly they just don't want to know about it.

I would never condone anyone flying over water or built up areas without being able to glide to an out landing area but we know from a previous thread plenty of others are OK with it.

Hell I read an article in the Sport Pilot magazine stating that with the advent of 4 stroke motors engine failure training is less of a priority. How are a handful of people supposed to rectify such a wide spread problem?

As I said before I am not interested in getting into a slanging match.

Teck,You really have to worry about some pilots who worry about being chipped on a technique in a BFR. A BFR has to be the best opportunity to brush up on poor techniques developed in the preceding 2 years. It is better to stuff up in a BFR and have some valuable instruction aboard than to stuff up solo or worse with some innocent passenger.

You would really not want to go flying with a guy who avoided a particular instructor because he was going to require a glide approach in a BFR!

Well I can't argue with " good ones" they will always be best. When you see accidents happening where aircraft are crashed with fatal results like the apparent death of a pilot in water because he hit to hard and losing power at 2000ft and hitting trees trying to get back to the home airfield you have wonder are enough people doing the "good ones"? I know pilots who say ultralights are not suited to glide approaches so they don't do them. People have lined up to do BFRs with me but cancel when they find out I want to see a glide approach. One time I nearly got caught out by a guy who thought his Jabiru would glide much further than it really could and kept with it until we were all but on the deck and the throttle was in between my legs of all places, won't get caught with that one again, I hope.

Powered approaches are dead easy which is why people do them (bit like nose wheel aircraft). But I think this is a case where easiest is not best. Every time these topics come up it almost turns into a slanging match which is something that does not interest me. If people want take the risk of not being competent in this area then that is their problem.

My best advice is to find another school that will teach to fly a taildragger. a Drifter is all u need to learn the basic skills. Most students prefer to learn in a tricycle but this is a mistake.The skills that will keep u alive are being taught less and less because everyone wants to fly the flash plastic, which is not designed for training.

I see it everyday, students being taught to fly GA style, huge circuits well outside glide angle to the strip, using power all the way around, rarely a glide approach or an emergency.

 

What you learn now will stay with you for life and will determine whether or not you will be a PILOT.

Another "dual purpose vehicle"? You just have to see this Australian firetruck that almost doubles up as a submarine!!!!

 

Frank I think you made a good call thinking the story was ideal for students. There are a number of factors of importance involved with that flight.

On at least two occasions I have set out to do a nav with a student to find the compass so far out we had to abort the exercise. These times were in planes new to me and on at least one occasion the previous owner had been using a GPS as a primary nav instrument so he didn't even know his compass was unserviceable. Luckily these times were over country with good land marks which made it easy to detect problems.

When flying you should try to double check everything you do including you are on a track where you should be. When flying over remote featureless terrain this can range from difficult to near impossible and you need everything you have control over on your side. When I was flying over remote areas out from Broken Hill I used to use position of the sun as a rough guide to check whether I was anywhere near on track or not. Things like eating proper meals, hydration, properly rested and all that human factors stuff which is common sense.

Luckily for us we have PLB's I hope everybody remembers to take their's.

Richard.

Hi Frank,

Can you email me a copy please [email protected]

Wow that looks like a successful wheels down landing in pretty inhospitable terrain. I would like to read that book and will try to track down a copy.

Yes and the other advantage is you won't be lost if the satellites stop working for whatever reason. Quite a few people are now dead because of depending on GPS's usually things like flying from VMC into IMC conditions.

Maps are pretty cheap, there should be no reason for not having them, and you couldnt possibly forget them or leave them at home because you should have them organised as you prepare to start the plane up so you can easily refer to them once the navigating part begins... Let me guess, he had a GPS and felt he didn't need the maps?

I know what I would do to you, you old bugga, but I can't say it on this forum ...

It is a flippant, offhand, thoughtless comment that provided no new information or value, therefore, insensitive and stupid!

I made those comments in case anybody was being mislead about turning back on take off type issues, because I felt the posts on this thread could be misleading.

A Bantam suffered an engine failure on RWY 23 Sunday morning, turned back and landed in the Aerochute area, west of RWY 36. I watched it all. Some other interesing things I saw over Natfly weekend, a GA tail tragger doing run ups near camping area, blew someones tent rolly polly down the camp ground. Someone took off with a wooden control lock still attached, luckily fell off and found on runway. Watch 2 aircraft takeoff on RWY 36, dispite a good tail wind/ crosswind, first 1 departed ok, but 2nd one almost became a statistic. He rotated, weather cocked, bounced, rotated, weather cocked bounced all the way down the strip, finally got airborne then dropped right wing doing a knife edge impersonation before levelling off, I thought he was gone, it was scary. I thought I saw an amphibian go down, but was relieved to find out he was doing a touch and go on lake north of the field. An interesting weekend to say the least, now dont get me going about the Air Museum.

Richard.

That is what happens if you let your guard down and become complacent.

Thanx Rob.Probably shouldn't be posting yet, im still quite shaken. I would say that the ATSB will have an answer to what went wrong very quickly, they have been provided video of the accident.

Basically something went terribly wrong as it was lifting off. The tail struck the ground and then flipped upside down. The fire started instantly, and by the time myself and Cory had extinguishers on it, it had taken hold. Unfortunately both crew were still inside. I honestly did my best to get to them. But the fire was too hot, and flarring badly. Once the extinguishers were spent all we could do was keep people away.

 

It was an horrific thing to see happen. Please give a thought to the family's, aswell as my staff, Cory, Liz, Alex and chad. Everybody did their best. The feeling of hopelessness was pretty overcoming.

Regards Richard.

Hello, Hemlock, ( interesting user name )I can`t give you any advice on training facilities in that area but you can get school locations from the RAA.

 

I call a weeks intensive training course, a crash course. Unless you`ve done some flying previously, you will probably find that you can`t absorb all there is to know and do, in one week.... Of course there is always the exception and you may be it.

 

I`m retired from instructing now but when I was, I advised my students to do an hour or two a week. This gives time to think about and absorb what has been learnt.

 

I found that most people find it hard to remain focused after about an hour of intense training.

 

Frank.

 

Ps, My opinion only.

Richard.

No I didnt, and yes it was.To be honest by the time I worked out that the "expert" approach was 1) Engine siezed restore.2) Goto step 1) it was too late to ask for what I thought was obvious, which was some primary fault finding as to why their was a problem in the first case. My first clue which I foolishly ignored was on asking why first time around I did not get any answer that was definitive and was told in effect "sh$t happens sometimes" I had been told that he was good and really new his stuff, owning a VW car engine overhaul busines.....

 

Anyway, when the new one goes in all support systems (such as oil injection, fuel pumps etc etc) will be fully overhauled and up to speed. I'll be doing the work myself. The only problem with that approach is that Im sorta a bit over 2 strokes...but the 912 based trikes are, to me, too expensive for what they are.

 

Andy

Oil injection is probably the way to go otherwise you have to really mix the oil with the petrol very thoroughly.

Warm your engine up well before take off to avoid cold seizures.

I personally always descended with the throttle at idle and warmed the engine every 500 ft ( you have to be careful not to cool your engine too much and then require power as that can result in a cold seizure ) descending with part throttle can also cause a seizure.

Monitor your EGTs even though I never did this myself as the aircraft I flew never had EGT gauges.

Never lean the fuel / air mixture unless you know for sure it is necessary, it is better to use a bit of extra fuel than have seized up engines.

Always use the manufacturers oil / petrol mix ratio, some people put more oil in thinking it will be better for the engine, but the opposite is the case.

Hope this is of assistance to you or any other two stroke flyers out there.

Richard.

Andy, did you find out why the seizures happened and was that on your trike?

Robinsm, As can so easily happen on these forums I think you may have taken Andy the wrong way.

Andy, I think to continue this debate may be counter productive so I am going sit back and let things sort them selves out I have put my thoughts forward and you have done the same, which is probably is all we can hope for.