Tony

Hi Guys, We have scored 204 views and 20 replies in this problem and we got some answers - thanks to everybody ! In conclusion, it appers to me the Thruster wing may be rigged to 0+ (zero plus) geometrical washout. How much the value of PLUS is ? It is rather a matter of a taste and experience. At this stage I am going for 1 and 3/4 of a degree which is 40mm measured vertically. Peter G, thank you for taking the measurement from your machine. Gorky450, the length of the struts is affected by the exact position of the predrilled holes for the top brackets and the bottom ones, which can be different type to type. Your position of your brackets may not be the same as on my type. Never the less, just to get a picture for the material needed as it goes as follows on mine: Front: 1)Top solid round alum plug 80mm long x 40mm Dia, 35mm Dia inserted into 2) Alum round pipe 35mm inside 300mm long with inside rectangular timber inset, alum wall 1.5mm. The bottom end flatten to oval inserted into eliptic strut 3) Alum strut eliptic 2mm wall 25mm x 70mm - circumference 165mm at 2125mm Length accomodates at the bottom the: 4) As Item 2) but Length 450 with STEEL insert of 1.5mm wall, all that goes into bottom bracket. Rear: 1)Top solid round alum plug 80mm long x 40mm Dia, 35mm Dia inserted into 2) Alum round pipe 35mm inside 400mm long with inside rectangular timber inset, alum wall 1.5mm. The bottom end flatten to oval inserted into eliptic strut 3) Alum strut eliptic 2mm wall 25mm x 70mm - circumference 165mm at 2500mm Length accomodates at the bottom the: 4) As Item 2) but Length 350 with STEEL insert of 1.5mm wall, all that goes into bottom bracket. Precise rigging occurs by shifting all members of this whole set inside of each other. Brackets set first, holes drilled last. I have no 'jury struts'.

Hi Guys, I am very gratefull for all your inputs from every each of you. I think I have to disclose a bit more about this particular one seater Thruster 'T85SG' I am reconstructing. It has the dihedral 50mm at the leading edge. (Only.) What is alarming to me, it has got a NEGATIVE (!) washout so bad so the ailreons appear to have NEGATIVE dihedral by 50mm. It still was flying, but not by me. Now, everybody on this post would agree this is absolutely wrong and I have to do something about it. It is very easy to extend the rear struts only if I know by how much exactly. Talking degrees, one degree represents a shift up of trailing edge by 22.5mm. Measured as cross section as a difference in Angle of Incidence that is. If Peter G can measure that in degrees please do so. Thanks, please keep going here. Never assuming anything Tony

Hi Guys, I am nearly completing restoration of my Thruster 85SG 'clipped wing' 25'6''. I am looking for answer to the question: How is washout achieved on Thruster wing ? More specifically, is there any structural washout, if yes, what is the value to change the angle of the incidence on the tips. Thanks in advance to your inputs. Tony

Did anybody noticed the machine crossed the shadow of the pole just before it collided with. Which means.....

As it shapes-up now, I would hold on the old tank with the original fairing etc, but make an insertion tank inside of it from aluminium, using the old tank as a bracket.

Right, OK, It looks like I'll take the old tank to somebody who can make exact copy with the fairing in aluminium incl. holding points etc. Thanks for that.

I've bought this single seater T?? (83,84,85) well and in a good order today. She needs a new propper fuel tank. Mean time I am learning on another T500 and I want fit exactly the same aluminium tank in my own new aircraft now. Where to get the proper tank ? BTW, guys this is not too funny, we tipped over the old fibroglass tank only to see a full handfull of the loose fibro bits and pieces which were blocking the old tank outlet ! Any advice is appreciated, believe me, the old tank is not going to fly at all. You can give me a line on [email protected] Milan Anthony Vlasak

Thank you for your input, this existing screen was cracking from the top everywhere and this process was temporality stopped by drilling a small hole at the end of the every progressing crack line. Also, the transparent silicon was actually doing better to stop this problem and it is not yet in the view area. Never the less, I wish to replace the whole part ASAP.

Oh, thanks for that, should I start at Bunnings or would you recommend other outlet ?

Somebody knows where to get and how much is for a new windscreen for T500 around Brisbane ? Tony Milan

Rillert, Mate, that is nothing. My flying instructor (on my 4th lesson) missed the runway completely, landed 30 degs away on a 'spare' sand strip 200 m long in the bush on one wheel, we were surely short to brake to anything I could see, and particulary to the line of trees ahead, still running fast, but instead he added the power up, after that it was obvious to me he cannot successfully take off over the trees in front of us or anything else, surely this was not touch and go damn ride now, so yeah, what now ?, but he with the left wing 6 inches low and full power turned on one wheel around into another runway around the corner, where we stopped, he checked the mags saying it is ok for another take off. They do it to test you. Check the record of your flying instructor, his reputation over all, talk to former students, his family members if possible....and, if you find his latest graduate is the Solicitor General you are right. Tony Milan

Hi Tony Hayes, Let me confess. In my early stages of learning Thruster I was the white knuckle guy. Those days are over. I can fly Thruster for 25 minutes without touching the stick on vertical trim, or without my feet on the rudders, thus using the stick in two fingers instead - providing I have the power right. And, I have a lot of to learn ahead.... I used to push the stick 'down' (not forward, back, left or right) as far as it would go like an idiot, stay on both pedals as hard as I thought it is a comfortable grip for me, paddle them like mad cyclist and bracing my right leg against the central panel so hard I had scars there for the rest of the each day. Now, I can feel my instructor has his feet rested on his pedals or not. If I pressurize one pedal at the force of any rubberband my flying instructor would tell me to "get off the pedals Tony", if it was his plane at the moment. And vice versa, I would ask my instructor if he has his feet on it, because I can feel something. His answer is usually "No Tony". So I put it to the wind. Normally, we do not have four feet on it. If there are two really too strong springs used on a Thruster and if one goes (not both) I believe it can create a loss of lateral balance which must be addressed by the PIC. I have seen double steel springs used on RA pedals so strong as it would keep a paddock gate closed..... If they are not that too strong the same snap off scenario would only rise a question what is going on to keep the PIC busy a 'little' bit more, there it is I would agree with your benign mechanics. Tony Milan

Hi Tony Hayes, Away from Falke to Thruster I am learning to fly. Some Thrusters and other RA planes do have two separate pedal return springs/rubberbands to tension the cables. Some don't. Each rubberband represents a pressure on the pedal of approx. two kilos by my estimation. Should one rubberband fail, the remaining force of the other rubberband will push down the pedal to which it is connected - at the force of two kilos. I would have to rather quickly balance that by pushing the other pedal at an equal force. The third tiny 'trimming' rubberband would not help me. Further, if I am unlucky enough to loose/snap say left rudder link cable in this arrangement my rudder would be instantly in full right, so I must be prepared to lift(!) the right pedal at once to sustain the straight path somehow, otherwise..... Does a Cessna or Falke have some better arrangement with return/tension springs in the rudder assembly, so the above cannot happen ? Thanks, Tony Milan

Rudder pedal return spring To TOSGcentral, Q: Does Falke has got Rudder Pedal Return Spring system ? If yes what is the exact arrangement. Thanks in advance if you don't mind to tell me about it. Tony Milan

So sad. I just think, would not a pilot release the pressure on the rudder and ailerons in order to cancel the side-slip forward and follow up with elevator use to set a stabilized and required speed on short final......for some reason they could not get this right in time. I ask myself, were the rudder (or ailerons) unfortunatelly stucked in their quite extreme positions for a good side-slip but would not go back to neutral when required....., the pilots would not bother to move elevator up before clearing the side-slip. On the first photo the rudder is still right hard.

Yes, AND please DO NOT RELY on height reading which the cheap (non differential system) GPS would give you.

Congratulation !! The GRIN rid ? Yes, you will get yourself lost in NAVS, the sure remedy to all grins and the fuel excess......... In particular on the way back.

Newton Laws and aerodynamics is a deadly natural mix In my opinion it all depends on the mass of the aircraft, velocity of the wind, velocity of the aircraft and the rate of the turn from upwind to downwind. See this makes four parameters already ! Nothing to do with ground mass of the Earth, it does not provide the frame work, Newton knew that ! To make my input shorter, because the light aircrafts have much less inertia they can faster accomodate the speed CHANGE needed when air changes than the heavy ones. So the Cesna is NOT better off than the ultralight in this particular excercise. However, the ultralights do fall from the sky just BECAUSE they do have very little inertia indeed. Paradox ? No. Explanation: Having little inertia they do slow down so quickly therefore they often strife to MAINTAIN the propper air speed needed. The indicated speed is everything !

Well, agreed here, sort of... The idea of picking up the stalled wing by ailrons is questionable because a stalled wing will stall even more with 'intuitive' ailron input. So the only input left OUGHT to be is the stick forward for the better speed and the ruder for better prospect of the already grim situation. See, the true pilots will not get in to this strife, because they are totally opportunistic. SPEED IS THE GOD, the Rudder is important and good Ailrons input just helps the flying along for the better what was already decided. One can slip side ways with the flaps down if one knows how. However, the combination of slip and stall is a grave one for sure to me. What is the purpose of stall ? Good Lord, a stall is not a normal flying situation, it is a NO NO....is it not ? I know four ways how to lose height on final: 1) Power back and maintain the glide speed by stick forward 2) S turns 3) Slipping forward - cross control 4) Stall at once - only for those real experts who know how to drop from 300 - 200 FT in 5 seconds (!) still going straight - and more importantly only good for those ones who knows where exactly is the bottom for this.

In the Thruster/Gemini one can slip OK in order to lose the height, in order to make the runway 'forward' (which means steeper descent) or side ways to slip in 'that parallel runway', but not in order to lose the speed for the god sake !!!! If one loses the speed it WILL STALL both wings or (WORSE !) one wing for the slip. If one pulls up or unfortunatelly idle the engine in endeavor to 'experiment' with the slips below 200 feet one should have his/her coffin pre-paid. Thruster/Gemini can drop one wing at low height without reasons 'normally' apparent to pilot. Hope this thread of mine will save lives.

Today, still no 'tail ups' solo, but 1/2 hour solo fast ground runs even faster - up to 25 knots. Discovered what adverse yaw really means - accidentally input ailrons on fast ground run, oh boy, she turns the other way ! Be careful people...

Yes, next solo will be 'tail ups' along that runway all the way. I'll let you know.

Juliette, I ditto on all that in your great input. Thanks for your support. There is a guy nearby who has 'Australian Lightwing' on nosewheel, I thought once I have the Thruster reasonably well, I should try that one. May be I should try the Australian Lightwing now for better....and yes Drifter is also flying around.

I am a late starter (58), I have 40 hours on T500 taildragger, the strip is west of Brisbane. Athough I can do the take offs, fly in the winds, do stalls and do sharp turns I am still working on to hold it 'dead straight', not an inch left or right and on holding my height - within 10 feet. I cannot land it yet any way, nor the way he wants it. But, I have 2x 0.5hours of solo fast taxi runs (20kts), the second in light wind.