Phil Perry

I say all station moorrabbin this is parasol 4188 5 mile south inbound @ 1500 Eta 5 min ! Petty much same as ga but aircraft type & numbers ,

Oh yes,. . . I forgot about the "All Stations" call, over here, if there is to be no response expected, usually from a private airfield, we call " XXXX TRAFFIC - G-ABCD - 5 miles North inbound." Just in case there is anyone else in the circuit ( pattern) I used to find that, when flying around in the OZ bush, that a call on 119.1 would quite often elicit a response, dunno whether this is still used, or Smoke Net ( CFA) usually someone on there to talk to on HF and VHF. . . . and when all else failed,. . . . channel 40 or 50 or 51 on the 2 metre FM amateur band always got somebody to have a chat to. . . . . . . . ( rarely flew without an FM ham rig in the outback. . . ) We used to use the RFDS channels too now and again. . . . . very helpful bunch of blokes !

 

 

She actually a shiatsu and the wife would kill me if I was to sell my little flying partner !

Yes Doug,. . . . . sorry about that, after I posted, I looked at the other view of the plane and noticed what appeared to be a CANINE near to the wingtip ! ! ! My mate Sooty ( the airfield engineer ) looked over my shoulder and said to me. . ." That . . . you stupid tw*t. . . is a bloody DOG. And him and his wife are breeders of the SAME model of canine apparently. . . . .

 

Thank you for posting the actual picture of the beast Upside down, Obvioulsy in deference to the fact that I live on the other side, in the UK, very considerate mate and I thank you.

 

Still a nice aircraft though innit ??

 

Cheers. . . . Phil

 

 

Guys,

As for using automotive engine lubes or additive packs ... There is so much complex chemistry behind designing an engine lube, you will be playing Russian roulette by departing from the manufactures spec. .. Just don't do it.

 

If a major oil company recommends a product you can be assured its has been carefully designed and tested to do the job and meet all the OEM performance specs.

 

Cheers

 

Vev

Oh Really ???? ( Devil's advocate for just a moment here Vev. . . I don't know you personally, and therefore have no intention of trying to make your assertions in any way too trusting of the corporate giants. . . . .)

 

Sorry mate, but in MY industry, I get all sorts of RECOMMENDATIONS from major manufacturers AND suppliers of whatever product. . . . that it has been researched and designed to meet certain specifications, only to find out not too far along the timeline that this was sometimes not QUITE factual when compared to mine ( and others' ) experiences of long term use of such products . . . , and in some cases, what appears, in actual operation to be covered by a range of statements, from being slightly economical with the truth regarding the "Research results" quoted to what amounts to be (apparently ) either seriously flawed in it's conclusions or just downright sales - driven bull$hit.

 

Lots of new products come along all the time. . . , some of which are better, some are not, . . . . . but technology DOES advance, in all fields, and, reading comments on this thread ( and elsewhere ) from people who use OTHER lubricants for OTHER high energy purposes, and appear, on the surface to know what they are talking about, which must be backed up by use of said products for some time to produce their resulting comments and suggestions, . . . . I would think, that on a balance of probabilities, that just because "we have traditionally used Brand X for years, as it was researched and designed by a Well Known major manufacturer . . . and therefore it would be plain stupid to try anything else" that strict adherence to that philosophy would, in short order,. . . prevent the advancement of, not just aviation powerplant lubrication technology, but most other things as well. ??

 

Following 40 years or so of using similarly RECOMMENDED products, I have yet to find a manufacturer / suppllier who EVER ADMITTED . . . that they might have made any errors, however minor, in their original calculations. ASSURED ? . . . . If you are happy to accept manufacturers' specs FOREVER, THEN AT LEAST AFFORD YOURSELF THE LUXURY OF ASKING THE QUESTION : Assured by what or Whom exactly ?????

 

****** Edited to add. . . . have you ever tried to sue a manufacturer because their specs didn't come up to expectations and cost you a lot of money ? * * * * * *

 

Just a thought mate . . . . ( and no offence whatsoever intended )

 

Phil ( Now returning to Non-DA mode. . . )

 

 

A few skins and oil coolers,it's just a bit of metal work.He didn't bring it down on the grass did he that realy buggers them?

Dunno Kittyhawk. . . . . East Mids closed the runway for a short while but they would have done anyway even if the aircraft HAD use the grass alongside it. . . . .PERSONALLY unless I had some pretty good knowledge of the field layout, I would Never do that again, after being offered the grass at an RAF station in the early days of microlight operations here,. . . by a very helpful controller who thought that I might break my little plane on a hard surface ( ! ) I hit a hidden power cable and disconnected the runway lights, and also wrecked a wheel and spat. . . . . I can imagine the sort of damage that a meaty Griffon powered spitfire could do to it's underbelly if landed on a soft surface. . . .

 

Anyway,. . when the story finally filters thru the local jungle telegraph, I'll post and let you know.

 

Phil

 

 

I may be wrong but I think the Guy in the picture with the gashes in his back may have been run over by a boat , I have seen that same picture somewhere else on the netCheers

 

Ken

Hiya Ken, Could be, I actually saw that on an EAA forum post in te USA, entitled " Don't mess with Airplane Props" . . . . but I agree, it could well be a swimmer run over by an outbard boat engine. . . .

 

Phil

 

 

SENSIBLE QUESTION NOW. . . . . being the radio op and instruc tor at our Club, I'm interested to know what procedure a pilot would use to call a ground station from that aircraft. Would you Say something like. . . " Moorabbin, Ultralight 4188 -inbound from the East at the five mile drain, request runway information . . . " Or just "4188 . . etc...etc..." In other words, do you just use similar procedure as do GA appliances, but using the numbers instead of the last three characters of the VH reg. . . ? ( Forgive me if I've got this wrong, it's been a very long time since I landed at Moorabbin. . . and the 5 mile drain may no longer be a reporting point !!)

 

 

The little Parasol the owner now willing to sell it $7500 and get a lightwing

What a lovely looking little machine Doug, . . . I realy like it. Gotta be a bargain for someone at that sort of money too, rather regrettably my portly frame would be a slight problem, and I'd only be able to achieve a FAST TAXY. . . . . . . ( That's assuming I could get my derriere to fit INSIDE the cockpit. . . . . . ) You guys really DO have an impressive range of aiarcraft, a lot more than I first thought, and a lot more than in the UK by far. Have a look at the sort of thing WE fly, in the POST PICTURES section. . . . . nowhere near as sexy looking, and precious few tailwheel types either.

 

JUST ONE QUESTION THOUGH. . . is that a CATalytic converter unter the left tailplane, or just . . . a CAT, . . . . and is it included in the deal ??

 

 

I'd like to start with this one. ( Got to be worth an application for the Darwin Award this. . .)

 

I had just exited the runway at a summer fly-in, when I noticed one of the volunteer marshalls, resplendent in Hi-Viz jacket, saunter up to the left side of a PA28 / 200 cockpit window and was apparently speaking to the pilot thru that nice little opening side - window.

 

I stopped taxying at that point and pointed this out to my front seat pax as I couldn't believe how this guy could be so stupid. . . . He was leaning on the leading edge of the wing between that and a TURNING PROP, casually talking to the pilot thru the open window.

 

Now I don't know if this bloke was actually a flying person himself, and I didn't get to find out, as there were upwards of seventy aircraft parked there and by the time I'd shut down and booked in, there was no sign of the bloke. I didn't see any blood and guts on the grass so concluded that he must have gotten away with this incredibly daft act.

 

I don't know about you guys, but If anyone had done this at our airfield, he would have been escorted to the exit and awarded a lifetime ban.

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 

Darwin Award Application number 2 . . . .

 

( I was able to interject here, to prevent a tragedy) . I was slouching about at the flying club on an unusually warm ( but damp )November afternoon when a guy strode out of the cafe and proceeded to try to start his aircraft, a PA 28/140 which was parked on the grass apron. After cranking it for a while, it was obvious that it was not going to fire, it didn't even cough. . . he eventually ran the battery down.

 

I didn't take a lot of notice notice at the time, as there was a non-radio SE5A replica in the pattern, and I was duty radio op with four trikes approaching the overhead.

 

Shortly after this he was seen trying a hand-prop job, with no chocks and nobody in the cockpit. One of my fellow members said, " Look at that twit, he's already slipped over on the wet grass and fallen thru the prop arc TWICE" When questioned about this the bloke said, "Don't worry, it sometimes does this, but it usually starts with a swing" ( Has anyone ever tried to hand swing a 140 Cherokee ?? - It's quite difficult, unless you have a Swartzeneggeresque physique )

 

Anyway, we talked him out of further Darwin Award attempts, and got our "Sooty" to drag out the long jump leads and get him going from the boost starter unit.

 

Hand - propping can be carried out safely on SOME aeroplanes. . . . but it requires careful training and commonsense, otherwise, you may well end up like the guy in the picture here, who lived incidentally and therefore did not qualify for the Darwin Award this time.

 

 

I wonder if there are any more scary stories you'd care to share for the eddification of us all ??

 

Phil

 

Image size reduced by request - Mod

 

 

He coud have gone on a nav elsewhere and done some touch and go's-what a waste.

Sapph. . . . . . . Surely you mean. . . . "TOUCH AND SCRAPES ? " ( ! )

 

 

I would like to say "I hope that the flying school gives him a discount for the 4 hours of flying around buning off fuel ". But in reality these things can be picked up in preflights.Its just not him, but probably the guys before him as well who flew this aircraft. Cracks grow over time, really hard to spot when under paint. It is all ways good idea to grab a good hold of u/c parts during a preflight and give them a really good pull.(Males have good practise of this) Eyes are great but a good tug can also show you if there is a under lying problem..

'Ang on Daz. . . . . . . if the poor guy had "Pulled" too hard on that U/C leg during the preflight. . . , he may well have ended up with a wing on the back of his neck ???????

 

 

Isuzu V6....

Thanks for that as well Arron . . . . .

 

 

The Spitfire in question is a civilian registered Mk 19 , registered G-GGRN , reflecting the Griffon engine in the rego . It is one of 79 Mk19s built by Supermarine at Southampton . I understand that the aircraft was acquired by Rolls Royce plc from the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight ( BBMF) in the mid 90s and as such was now an ex BBMF aircraft and was no longer based at RAF Coningsby but based at the East Midland Airport , the location of the incident .

Hiya Yampy. . . . I t h i n k that one was recently bought by a private owner in Lichfield, just up the road from me. . . . there can't be many Spits in private hands around here . . . certainly don't see many, unless it's in the aiarshow season and they're just passin' thru. . . My friend Anthony, who has one of the few 2 seaters in the UK, spent over £20K on his undercarriage not long ago ( ouch ) guess the bits are at a premium now !! Coulda bought a secondhand Skyranger 912 for that !!

 

 

They now install Subara V6's and Chevrolet (I think) V8's.

Thanks for that Clive.

 

 

Do they still manufacture the 8?

I really Don't know what they are putting in the Mk26 kit nowadays Motz, I only saw an early version up close, when they weere first imported and an example hadn't been com[pleted and flown then. . . ..

 

 

I have been reading over this forum, and the mechanical and Jab issues aside, I am disgraced by the hostility and plain b*tching i have been reading. first of all guys calm down! I am not a fan of the jab aircraft myself, but that is just my opinion. Doesn't mean I need to come on a forum and whinge about it like a teenage girl. when it comes to mechanical and safety issues certainly have constructive conversations about things, but what I have been reading this morning clearly demonstrates why I refuse to call myself a pilot and just tell people I fly aeroplanes. we are all mature adults on here, we have to be to fly. lets act like it.its like they say, "pilots, looking down on people since 1903!"

Hi Tim,

 

I have to say that I've found this thread quite interesting, Oh sure, you are going to get some folk who will get a little heated, some with good reason, but as you know, the BIG problem with TEXT MESSAGES is that they really DON'T convey anything other than words, which of course can be interptreted as you will. I personally wouldn't agree that there was any "Bitching" as such, but I DO like a good argument, PROVIDING it isn't too silly. that's what makes life interesting. Incidentaly, my Daughter Rachel, whilst 16 years old, used to carry out a 100 hourly maint. job on my Rotax 503, including removing any carbon deposits. She then replaced the gaskets and put it back together and torqued up everything correctly. She insisted on being there when it was check flown. She then got a boyfriend ( who DOESN'T LIKE FLYING !!!! ) and lately I have been forced to do the damn job myself.

 

Stay cool

 

Phil

 

 

ACTUALLY. . . .

 

I'm fascinated by how things actually work nowadays in OZ. I left a long loooong time ago, and only flew GA appliances, because there were no alternatives. Oh sure, I tried a hang glider, but after a landing on a fence after jumping of a ridge in the Marburg range, almost flattening the family jewels, I sold that and bought a new ham radio rig.

 

I'd really like to get some information about the two ( three ? ) disciplines which now pervade in the land of Australian pilotage. . . . . and noticing all these reg numbers on A/C pics I've seen posted, does this mean that the ultralight bods are not deemed fit to carry a VH reg ?? why not ??

 

All these questions and more, and if nobody cares to post a nice long explanation, I'll have to sit heare for another year of late nights in the hangar picking up snippets by default. She Who Must Be Obeyed will not like this much but at least I guess I'll get out of those D.I.Y. jobs she keeps going on about. . . . .

 

Phil

 

 

Hey CFI,Rotax engines have a use by date, i.e. 10, 12 years etc this depends on the model. They also have a TBO time before rebuild.

Lets say you have an engine that has a TBO of 1500 hours but has only done 800 hours in use ... but it 15 years old and has a 12 year calendar life.

 

The question is can you continue to run this engine past its calendar life or not and is there any limitations, that is, private or airwork?

 

Cheers

 

Vev

Hiya Vev,. . . . . .

 

Sorry to be a nitpicking git, BUT ( oh dear, he's going to be anyway. . . . sigh . . .)

 

You're talking about TBR ( time before rebuild, ) and using the wrong initials. TBO actually means ( or it does when I have to do it ) T - ime B - efore O - my God, that's going to cost a $hitload of bucks . . . sob . . . . . ( or was it, Overhaul. . . . I dunno, my brain hurts. . . )

 

Phil

 

 

Could be Clive. . . .COULD BE. . . . bloody teutonic efficiency, makes yer sick dunnit ? It's probably why the "S" series Merc is the best car in the world. . . . . . (Oops, sorry thats made byt the Jerries innit . . .)

 

It must be, cos Jeremy Clarkson says so. . . . . shame he lambasts us microlighters so much. . . . . .

 

 

Taking you theory Phil, should we expect even more problems with an engine made in Austria because of the greater difference between the ambient temperature in Australia compared to the factory?Doesn't seem to be the case does it?

Read it again. . . . and it wasn't a theory by the way, just a com ment. . . . I said that "One could assume" . . . . . and from what I gather, the thread is mainly aimed at other design issues, and not just the operating temperatures you're going to get in a particular country. The last time I flew into Innsbruck, and out again the next afternoon, it was a balmy six degrees celcius, so overheating of the engines was not going to be figuring highly on the "Possible problems" I'm not suggesting that Ts and Psshould be left to their own devices, or not taken any less seriously in ANY stage of flight and if you buy an engine made in Austria, or anywhere else, it will have the engine temperature operating ranges tabulated in the POH. I have not seen one yet which doesn't. You then operate this in line with what the instruments tell you, whatever the OAT.

 

As you may well be aware, Rotax / Bombardier originally made their fortune supplying engines for snowmobiles or "Skiddoos" as the septics like to call them, which were designed to operate at a sensible and therefore useful and reliable engine temperature in sub zero environments, and as the timeline advanced, and they started making four stroke engines for us kitbuilders / Lsa, Ultralight and Microlight operators, they have refined their products to reflect the environments in which they are likely to be used. This is possibly why they are the largest supplier of this type of engine at the moment, and probably why the US Govt. buys whole production runs for their UAVs ( pretty hot in Afghanistan too I hear )

 

My comments were generated BECAUSE I READ all of the other posts in this interesting thread BEFORE commenting. You may agree if you also read them all, that there seemed to be some argument with regard to what was the correct OR max temperature allowable / recommended for Jab engines. I return again to my comment about designers, if I was designing something to operate in a country like Australia, and was an Australian, and BASED there,. . . . I'd certainly want to know if my product was going to be viable in those KNOWN climatic conditions, just like I would find it a bit daft to design a washing line hoist made of marzipan and try to sell it to India.

 

Kind regards,

 

NosensibletheoriesPhil

 

 

So an Australian company produces an aircraft for sale in Australia which must not be operated in temperatures above 38C ??.

Yes Clive, that's right BUT. . . . when I was flying in OZ in the early seventies. . . , they reckoned if you could get about five thousand feet under yer wings really quick,. . . . . the temperature up there would be magically reduced by roughly ten degrees C !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Summat to do with ( especially when it ain't raining. . . ) the D.A.L.R. or, Dry Australian Lapse Rate . . . . . or,. . .hang on, am I confusing this with the speed that Aussie pubs are closing due to the Smoking Ban, ,. . . . . . dunno, I could have a crack in my thru bolt. . . . ?

 

Did I forget to wish you JOYEUX NOEL Monseiur ?? can't remember. Anyway, consider yourself Greeted.

 

Phil

 

 

We've had a number of very interesting discussions on it Phil, but so far none of us have been able to pinpoint the deign issue around the through bolts.

Geeeez,. . . . . I wonder if the 8 Cyl Jab engine which powers the very popular Mk26 Spitfire kit has the same stud design. . . . . .? Have not noted any rumblings on the UK Forums thus far though. . . . . . I'd be really ticked off if I had to force - land my BAttle of Britain pride and joy into a deep ploughed field, ( But that's only because I always panic when the engine stops . . . . . )

 

( * * *Editor's note,. . . . NO I DON'T own one, didn't intend that inference. )

 

Some poor millionaire just had a probbie when his Mk 9 REAL SPITFIRE undercarriage collapsed on the runway at East Midlands Intl Airport last week though, I'll bet he is a bit on the peeved side. . . . .

 

 

Not to be outdone. . . . Here's another Mike Whittaker MW6/ 582 stick insect This one was owned by one of our Club members, who repaired it, it wasn't that badly damaged believe it or not,.. he then bought a Jabiru, and if you look on the Jab owners club site ( UK ? ) you can see the accident report where the aircraft (ALLEGEDLY ) exploded in the air killing both the pilot and his Father.

 

Very sad indeed. I have not seen the outcome of the French Accident investigation board yet, but it's a weird one, as the pilot's body was found more than a kilometre away from the wreck site, . . . this is what promoted the original suggestion that it was some sort of midair explosion. All speculation at the moment. *** The locals initially thought that the BRS Parachute had deployed, but there appears to be no evidence of one being fitted, and some Jab owners have mentioned that there isn't any room, or weight allowance to fit one in an early model Jab.

 

******* Late edit******** A friend of the Pilot's Brother has just told me that the French investigators are looking into the possibility of a lightning strike, as there was considerable turbulence on the day of the accident, as well as storm reports not far away. . . . They are also speculating about a fuel leak causing a build up of fumes in the airframe. No definitive report yet though.

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

Time for a new hobby then?

Yeah, why not take up HAM RADIO ? ? ? ? ? Then you can have an anorak like mine. . . . . and make your own aircraft aerials ( most of which won't work. . . )

 

I've already found TWO on this forum, a VK3 AND A VK5 as well ! ! ! ! ! I'll bet they sound REALLY GOOD on the Air Band. . . . . ( ! )

 

On second thoughts, . . . NAH, . . . . sod the radio,. . . . get yourself a few hundred bouncers in first. You can always build a backyard shed and fill it with valves and stuff when yu get older, to re-live your expolits with all the other greying eagles out there in hamland. . . . !

 

Phil.

 

Editor's Note*** I am NOT suggesting that the other two guys are anoraks by the way,. . . . . . . They seem rather nice and sane ( so far. . .)

 

 

Would you buy another car from the same manufacturer if you'd had 3 of their engines bite the dust inside of 12 months during routine driving?

I'm not really in a position to make qualified comment regarding Motz's engine failures, . . . . . but I think your well articulated comment pretty well puts the situation into perspective Sain.

 

Here comes the "However"

 

I'd have to point out that the last bit ( as quote ) wasn't really a realistic comparison. a Not many aircraft are worked harder than those used for training pilots. Apart from the exmples you may see on "Bush Pilots" "Ice Pilots" and other TV shows.

 

To compare a school training aircraft with one which is used under the heading "ROUTINE" is a bit off the wall. ( Yes. . .I KNOW schools have routines too, but I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at)

 

The sometimes drastic operations in which training engines in training aircraft are used, will often result in shock cooling, ( PFL, then sudden application of full throttle. . . ) as a previous poster mentioned, and of course, solo students not warming the engines correctly on a frozen English morning . . . . and then revving the guts out of it. Something a loving / sensible private owner would never (! ) do. . . .

 

Can't compare the family Holden Kingswood with a Monaro turbonutter car which trains blokes to stay on the track at Bathurst. . . .

 

The thing you guys have got, which we have not. . . . is a much higher average ambient temperature most of the year round, I'm sure this means that a LOT more care needs to be taken in engine operation.

 

As for Motz's problem, which sounds awful, I have no suggestions, I've never dealt with them, ( another However) perhaps since they are a manufacturer based in AUSTRALIA one could assume that NAtional ambient temperatures would have figured large in the original design calculations for that engine ??. Or is the underlying suggestion that this thread concerns a lot more than just operating temps . . . . . .?

 

Phil

 

 

I have to say I'm staggered by this off the cuff comment......I'm hoping it was tongue in cheek. "Looking after an engine better" is not going to stop failures due to inherent design problems.

My Mate Simon will be very interested in this thread, he has a Savannah with a Jabbie in it. . . . .he has had no severe problems in 3 yrs of operation, since building the kit. . . other than some minor issues with overheating.

 

Friend Roger the Dodger operates a Jabiru, strangely enough with a jabbie engine as well,. . . he's been all over most of Europe including right down to Greece with no real problems either, but I shall grill them both this weekend, as we'lll all be under 6ft of snow if the wx forecast is to be believed and there isn't likely to be much aviating. So itt'l be hangar yarns in the clubhouse instead.

 

Oh and,. . . . YES I fully understand that using an aeroplane in a training environment is a lot different from the work expected from a private pilot's mount.

 

Phil

 

( by the way. . . ex vk3nay / zau / daz / vk4yc / now G4ohk )