Roundsounds

I reckon this will feature in your annual visits to building 148 in a year or so. It's interesting the rear right slide didn't deploy for approx 15 secs after those on the right.

Yes, I'd be embarrassed if caught flying a Tomahawk too!

The various offshoots of the Aeronca Champ aka "Air knocker" are ideal abinitio trainers. They teach pilots what their feet and rudder pedals are meant to do and most are adequate aerobatic trainers. I think the value of tail wheel experience is lost on most future multi engine pilots. Tail wheel pilots have no hesitation in using full rudder during takeoff / landing if so required, in the event of an engine failure in a multi-engine aeroplane they will instinctively use whatever rudder is needed to keep the aeroplane straight.

In my opinion an instructor has no place teaching people to fly if they cannot effectively teach stall recovery involving a wing drop. If the aircraft being used aren't capable of performing such manoeuvres, then they are not suitable as a trainer. As far as spin training for pilots not interested in aerobatics they must be taught, at the very least, to recognise the symptoms of an impending stall / spin. The most common phase of flight I observe as leading to an unintentional spin entry being the turn from upwind to crosswind and from base to final. If an aircraft enters a spin at that point it's all over, so the ability to recover from a spin is of no use. The incorrect use of rudder in climbing / descending turns I see is staggering. The classic is the turn into final during a glide approach - the fear of over banking leads to turning using rudder and holding off bank with aileron - and I see so many people either totally unaware they're doing it or don't see a problem with it. Getting into the right aircraft with a suitably experienced and qualified instructor at a safe height will soon cure pilots of this habit - it only takes one demonstration to get the message home. I also firmly believe spin entry should be taught in a climbing turn - some power, out of balance with aileron input to hold off bank. Too many pilots will recite spin recovery as "opposite rudder and stick forward". The first two vital actions in the event of an unintentional spin entry to effect recovery (in fact all spin recoveries) are throttle closed, ailerons neutral, then you can think about identifying the direction of rotation, applying appropriate rudder input, then unstalling the wings (might involve back stick if inverted spinning). Rant over....

Be read elsewhere there is a company at YSBK operating RAAus and VH rego Foxbats with GA / RAAus flying school approvals. They should make the transition from the RPC to RPL pretty straight forward.

Appending CAOs to any manual is not a good practice, it's much better to make reference to them. You also need a proper tracking / reference system allowing the owner of the manual to address any changes to the references. The tech manual is an absolute dog's breakfast. I cannot see how any amateur built aeroplane can possible be maintained in accordance with the tech manual. Then any aircraft with a manufacturers maintenance schedule must be maintained IAW it. Instead it seems there's a mixture of CAO, CASR and manufacturers stuff

I'm not sure, but I hope CASA did audit their SOPs. To quote the Corner's comments regarding a recent gliding accident: "Nevertheless, perhaps they had become over-confident, complacent and reluctant to face the technological changes in the world which mock an old sport based on the winds and silence. The entire procedure depended on fairly amateur rules and traditions which were subject to human error at any time."

As far as using your own aircraft, that could be a different story. The school would need to be dual RAAus and GA with appropriately qualified instructors. If you already hold an RPC you might find doing the training under the RAAus system difficult to justify, as they don't have a CTA/CTR endorsement. However if you are training towards gaining an RPC from a Class D airport it becomes part of the RPC. The entire process is very messy and would need a bunch of lawyers to sort it out.

The CASRs (61.485, 490, 495) do not stipulate any minimum instructional flight time for CTA or CTR endorsements. MOS 2 lists the competencies for CTA and CTR endorsements and there is no flight test involved. The instructor issuing the endorsement must hold a Grade 1 or 2 training endorsement. Bottom line, provided the instructor is satisfied the pilot meets the competency standards they are able to issue the endorsement. To be exercising the instructor's grade 1 or 2 training endorsement they must be making the assessment in a VH registered aeroplane. So, in the case of the 24- and VH rego Foxbats, provided the assessment is completed in the VH rego machine, the instructor would be meeting the requirements of the reg's. As a side issue, 61.500 says if the RAAO issuing the RPC has issued a CTA / CTR endorsement it is recognised on the RPL. Maybe the CASA legislation authors were thinking ahead.

It's worth submitting a defect report, if the Tech manager considers it a safety issue he might raise an airworthiness notice. https://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Defect-Report-November-2014_Fillable.pdf

My apologies, I had missed that detail.

As does the RAAus self certification.

When I last looked at the medical requirements on the GFA website they seemed to have the requirements as RAAus (minus the HF training / exam). That is, you self certify, if you're an instructor I recall there was a class 2 required? The motor gliders at Camden can come / go via either the glider or powered runways.

This certainly would be an adequate work around, but why is a workaround needed? I hold a CPLA, Grade 1 Flight Instructor Rating and CFI / ATO privileges. To set up a Part 141 flight training organisation I would spend 18 months and around $15K, whereas an RAAus FTF - 4 weeks and less than $500 would see me up and running. I could train RAAus pilots and issue their RPC at a Class D aerodrome, subject to obtaining a CASA exemption. Having gained their RPC they can no longer operate from the Class D aerodrome. However, if the same pilot obtains an ASIC, RAMPC or Class 2 medical, applies for and obtains an RPL from CASA I can do a flight review with the very same pilot I just trained and tested for an RPC, endorse them for Class D operations and off they go in the same RAAus registered aircraft they gained their RPC in! Across the paddock at Camden there are glider pilots, with cross country and passenger carrying privileges operating motorised gliders without holding any CASA issued medical or licence and no Class D airspace endorsement. Where is the safety related case for applying different standards to two similar RAAOs? Maybe Part 149 will address this?

As mentioned earlier, CTA privileges are already provided to RAAus students under an exemption at the old GAAP airports (now modified Class D). Gliding Australia (formerly the GFA) enjoy Class C and D access, their pilots operate on the same basis as RAAus- a certificate issued by their RAAO and a self assessed medical. Camden is a good example of this. A properly prepared submission to CASA, highlighting the discriminatory application of restrictions to airspace use, should see at least Class D access. I know an individual has already raised this with CASA resulting in it being referred to their legal office for consideration, but a lone voice is unlikely to make any ground. This would need a higher profile push to succeed.

Ok, I now see how "Type" is being interpreted. The application of type is inconsistent throughout the manual. Some can be interpreted as aircraft with similar handling characteristics, stall speed, configuration etc. however there are other references to Type which are specific to a particular manufacturer and model. Try doing a word search of the .pdf and you'll see what I mean. The FAA define type as follows: Type: (1) As used with respect to the certification, ratings, privileges, and limitations of airmen, means a specific make and basic model of aircraft, including modifications thereto that do not change its handling or flight characteristics. Examples include: DC–7, 1049, and F–27; and (2) As used with respect to the certification of aircraft, means those aircraft which are similar in design. Examples include: DC–7 and DC–7C; 1049G and 1049H; and F–27 and F–27F. (3) As used with respect to the certification of aircraft engines means those engines which are similar in design. For example, JT8D and JT8D–7 are engines of the same type, and JT9D–3A and JT9D–7 are engines of the same type.

You could, but why go to the expense? The Sydney basin only has The Oaks available for FTFs, should The Oaks become unavailable where would RAAus aircraft operate near Sydney? Wedderburn is not friendly from a terrain perspective and they don't allow any commercial ops there. Camden is class D, an FTF can operate from there with a load of restrictions, but as soon as the pilot gains their RPC they are no longer allowed to fly solo without going the RPL route. By contrast, the gliding clubs operate in class D at Camden without the same restrictions imposed on RAAus pilots. The gliding guys have a certificate (not a licence) and self certify medicals - ie the same as RAAus pilots. In fact, an RAAus pilot can join Gliding Australia and do a powered glider conversion with Gliding Australia's equivalent to an FTF, then fly solo / carry pax in a motor glider at Camden in Class D without needing a class 2 medical, GA licence and ARF.

Camel, the final Answer from the FAQs you quoted mentions "recommendation for Type Training". I don't read the ops manual as saying this is a recommendation, rather being a requirement. I would suggest a Type is a type (eg Jabiru J170, Skyfox Gazelle etc) not a class, group or fitted equipment (eg high performance, two stroke, glass cockpit, spoilers etc.)

Don, if you want a hand to put forward a submission I'd be happy to assist.

There is provision to make a written submission to the Ops Mgr for approval to fly a type without an endorsement: (e) provide written proof to the Operations Manager of an appropriate recognised qualification.

I had a discussion with Ops when ver 7 was still in draft suggesting they go the GA way, but the intent is training on each aircraft type. eg If you learn in a Jabiru and now want to fly a Technam Sierra - you need an "endorsement" irrespective of your experience. This change is the result of several accidents involving early / first flights on a new type and reportedly involved pilots with little and lots of experience. The sooner the incident database is up and running the better, cause you'll be able to prove / disprove these assumptions.

Are you saying CASA is denying RAAus RPC holders access to class D airspace on the basis of them being "cowboys"? I would have said it is a legacy of the days of Skycraft Scouts etc and the incompatibility of mixing with GA aircraft. Existing rules allow an RAAus pilot to come and go from airports like Albury, mixing with RPT, when the Tower is closed but not when it's open. How does that stack up from a safety perspective, which is CASA's purpose in life.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but..... TYPE TRAINING (AEROPLANE) 18. An applicant undertaking training for a specific aeroplane type must: (a) hold the appropriate aeroplane Group rating; and (b) complete theory training to the satisfaction of an RA-Aus Examiner; and © undertake flight training to meet the competency requirements of Unit 1.11 of the RA-Aus Syllabus of Flight Training, in the type of aeroplane sought; and (d) pass a flight check with an RA-Aus Examiner; or (e) provide written proof to the Operations Manager of an appropriate recognised qualification. I recall having a discussion with Op's about this when version 7 of the Op's Manual was being drafted. See section 2.05-9

Under CASR Part 61 you can't just jump into an aircraft in the class your licence allows you to fly (eg single engine aeroplane) with appropriate design feature endorsements. 61.385 the General Competency rule applies. 61.385 Limitations on exercise of privileges of pilot licences— general competency requirement (1) The holder of a pilot licence is authorised to exercise the privileges of the licence in an aircraft only if the holder is competent in operating the aircraft to the standards mentioned in the Part 61 Manual of Standards for the class or type to which the aircraft belongs, including in all of the following areas: (a) operating the aircraft’s navigation and operating systems; (b) conducting all normal, abnormal and emergency flight procedures for the aircraft; © applying operating limitations; (d) weight and balance requirements; (e) applying aircraft performance data, including take-off and landing performance data, for the aircraft. So you need to be familiar with the operating procedures and handling characteristics of the particular aeroplane before launching. The rules don't say how you do this, a person with a broad range of type experience may be able to read up then go flying. Whereas a less experienced person might need some dual instruction. RAAus require training on all new types, even more restrictive than GA.

I know this thread is old, but thought I'd fire it up again. Has anyone considered there is another RAAO who's pilot are permitted to operate in controlled airspace, both D and C. Their pilots hold a certificate issued by the RAAO, they self certify their medical and operate in class D regularly, without the same restrictions as RAAus, from Camden - no GA licence or class 2 medical. The RAAO is Gliding Australia (Gliding Federation of Australia), an interesting double standard.