turboplanner

The topic is "Camit engines - anyone got one?"

I went back to count the numbers, and got as far as"

"1" (he thinks)

"8 Camit rebuilds/new" - which could mean anything but could well be Jab engines

"1"

"Ian Bent taking 2 to Natfly

By page four there had been no more attempts to produce any numbers, just outrageous promotion which didn't ring true with my past experience at all.

I said earlier, none of this was coming from CAMit, and I think this kind of ridiculous promotion has just made a rod for Ian Bent's back.

It would be nice to think he has every problem solved, but if he gets some sales, and failures occur, there's going to be an instant reaction.

The only thing that brings cultural change is change of people.. When we see mass sackings at the top end and mass job adverts then expect change , until the its all talk

If the people at the top set good policies and motivate their employees to follow them the culture improves year by year.

People don't change overnight, but they do respond.

Looks like you found a copy of Playboy while searching for the facts I mentioned.

Prove it.

A conrod or piston or crank etc doesn't give a stuff what it's application is, it only cares that the stresses offered to it and that those stresses do not exceed it's limits. It doesn't know if it's in a plane or a car or a t

When you do the calculations to determine startability, gradeability, and maximum speed of a vehicle, there is a figure for rolling resistance which varies by:

Surface, e.g. concrete, bitumen, dirt road, soft sand.

Tyre, e.g. Crossply, Radial, inflation

I would think the rolling resistance on those tyres would be more, adding to the takeoff roll, but also playing a greater part in yaw dynamics due to the even resistance on the ground.

Whether this would be miniscule or significant in terms of improving resistance to yaw would be an interesting experiment.

I suspect this is going to build into a national scandal.

I would no more fit that engine to a modern motorcycle than I would fit a modern motorcycle engine to an aeroplane. The engines cannot be optimum for BOTH Nev

Motorcycles generally have low torque and use rpm to multiply that torque into high power (kW)

Constant loading engines, as used in trucks and aircraft usually have higher torque with a lot less rpm required to reach the desired power (kW).

The difference involves may components, starting with crank pin offset, so it's understandable that a motorcycle is not going to be exactly bullet proof in a constant load aircraft application.

You obviously haven't had an experience yet. I haven't had any mechanical failures, but I'm fast finding petrol shandied with ethanol is an operational disaster unless you get excited about draining every tank on your property within two weeks of putting petrol in it. I'm finding a very stubborn gum-like substance in air orificies.

The bottom line Col, is that collecting that degree of data with that degree of accuracy requires bypassing the human factor, where the reporter realises you might want those figures.

To do that you have to pay to send someone to the scene.

And he/she has to be able to get there before the engine has been dismantled/pulled out/sent off for repair.

And the owner has to have the instruments and will to have recorded the data.

You realise in the figures I posted for Rotax 912 over five years, only two forced landings had engine failures which were not caused by human error, one "engine failure no cause", and one "Oil pressure", and with those vague descriptions, it could easily have been one, or zero.

So you'd be going to a lot of expense for one mechanical failure every two and a half years in the whole of Australia.

What would be better is for RAA to start logging that extra data if a trend started to emerge.......but this is normal done by a manufacturer who has the commercial interest to fix issues before they cost sales.

Looking at the track where he was almost lined up on the beach, or had an easy option of ditching, but then curved back into the dense residential area with narrow streets south of Nepean Highway and the inevitable collision with a house, his situational awareness or vision appears to have been compromised.

We are both saying the same thing, that reporting may be less than actual. For the broad picture, when CASA are looking to apply sanctions on any safety concern, it has to be based on proof, so any under-reporting has to be disregarded in the formal process.

Issues identified by committee..yes. Govt response ..full of caveats. and the ministers speechwriter from casa saying we are already heading that way. Casa got a shove to get on with reg introduction by end of 2015. So..has that had any effect in the past..nope. I'm off to write to my local member of parliament.

If you care to go back to my spreadsheet covering about five years, which was populated directly from RAA magazine reports, (so the same source we are talking about now), you will see that the strategy used by some, of arguing a comparison between engines, under-reported or not, is likely to backfire.

I've stayed away from talking a "little more" or "far more" because we have no idea of the National tally, and one of the most misleading techniques from posters has been to take the experience of their own aircraft, of a bunch of friends, or the one training area and assert that this applies across the board.

Here's my Rotax extract from May 2007 to March 2012 - just under five years. I'd suggest only two might be traceable to the manufacturer, and even then could be due to the quality of the report.

[my spreadsheet was never claimed to be official, only applies to the stated period of collection, and may bear no relationship to the discussion between Jabiru and CASA.]

The key will be in the ones being worked on, and not accepted.

Is there any real evidence to suggest that Jabiru operators are more likely not to report engines failures than operators of other engines? Or is it just speculation based on anecdotal evidence? If so, I fail to see how under reporting is relevant, in that all of the reported statistics may be affected by under reporting to the same degree.

The data they have has been shared.

It has been shared by RAA to them.

The RAA data is available to all members.

If there has been some erroneous quoting of the number of engine failures per year, that is very easily rectified from the database.

The database only contains reports submitted to RAA, so will be under-reading.

Boxfat,

there was a consultation period, which was ample for people to put their views. Because this is a safety issue they are already out on the risk limb for doing that if there's a fatality.

You cynic Sk. The main costs there are what we pay the ad agencies, the writing and compiling costs etc, but after reading the above posts, I think Head In The Clouds is Heading In The Right Direction if hard copies are required.

I didn't think of that. How naïve am I? ) Problem with being young. Do we have cliques here? I thought is was impossible to get two of the same opinion. Nev

THEY (Auto service manuals) are extremely expensive and LARGE. I think many businesses use on line manuals because of the sheer volume of print required.A hard copy might be more appropriate for most of us. Nev

PM's figure shows it's economically possible, although you have to add packaging and distribution to that.

Aside from lowering cost, online manuals allow immediate correction of errors, where there are books out there incorrect for years.

Digital allows a lot more photos and a lot less confusing descriptions, and videos showing the more tricky installations. Online Parts Manuals are particularly good.

What I'm seeing more and more is a greasy IPad sitting on the mudguard while the guy is working.

Automotive operating Manuals can run from $220.00 to $450.00 if they have to be bound.

I agree FH, I do much the same, and because I work a lot in aluminium threaded casings, components, have developed a sixth sense to minimise thread stripping and at the same time optimising clamp.

Based on the details posted by gandalph, sure there's likely to be a considerable variation depending on the thread cutting, the person who prepares the bolt and thread for assembly, and the tightening technique used.

However, if someone has been tightening flywheel bolts for 40 years, by feel, and bolts are snapping on one make and model, that's fairly compelling (not say that's the case with the Jab bolts because the reports have come from different people who haven't talked about their previous history/success with other flywheel bolts/other flywheel assemblies.

These variables are one of the reasons a manufacturer tends to overdesign bolts in critical areas.

It's a good point SQ, everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.

Although Motz's poll has only drawn votes from 1% of the members, it's good to see the level of responsibility expressed by the majority of the voters.

While the situation has been out of our hands all along, and will be decided between CASA and Jabiru, it would be worthwhile to look at the constructive suggestions you recommend.

WHAT? He's not allowed to join the discussion? Is what he said not correct?

...............................smokn!, and....................

Tiger Moth hit by a gust of wind.