rmorton

Its the same word by word! But the importeur is told to be a nice one, who realy cares about his builders. So, what the f... time will tell. But thats why I orders just Kit 1 b.I can't find the info about the numbers of clecos recommended. Can somebody give me a link?

 

I'm also wondering about using corrosion protection. It can't hurt, so I guess everybody uses the supplied black stuff from ICP. But in the Zenair videos on the 750 and 650, there is no corrosion protection and they say you simply don't need it.

 

Had a mail from ICP yesterday. Question was, which panel layout I wan't? Quite early to answer that question...

I had to ask about the panel layout and decided to go with standard for now and maybe make my own later.

 

You have me worrying about the clekos now. I will wait. till the kit is here and see what they include.

 

When I spoke to both Centrenoyer and ICP they both said you must use the black paint on surfaces that are in contact with each other, but use it sparingly. After that as Marty_d says it depends on the use and environment you will keep the plane in.

 

You can get Alodine from Aircraft spruce in Germany, but it isn't nice stuff.

 

Do you have the name of the place where you are thinking of getting the clekos?

 

 

I took advice on here re cleko quantities and bought mine from Cleaveland Aircraft Tool. Nice people, and they set up a separate account so I could use Transferwise for payment, which they had not seen before.What I ended up getting is in the Savannah section under Tools and the advice I got was good: I have just the forward fuselage to build now, at various points I have used every cleko, but I have always had (just) enough.

Did the kit come with any? If so how many?

 

 

Can't be more expensive than shipping to Australia... I got all my clecoes from the US. The last lot were from Pan American Tool and were about 36 cents each.

How many do you think you need ?

 

 

that would be "centreulmlesnoyers"Kit 2 ... compare 19.500 to 26.200 euros

I havn't seen clecos under 0,80 euro.

 

Yesterday I've seen a store in the US they sell 100 pc. made in usa for 0,36 dollar. Just wondering if shipping to germany would work?

Indeed that is where I am getting mine from and I have to say they are very good. I am really shocked at the difference in price in the two kits! Is the German version somehow different? 6000 euros pays for a shed load of administration!

I will let you know how many cleko's come in the kit when I get it, I havent heard of anyone not having enough. I find myself getting obsessed with certain aspects of the build now. I have got over the what propellor I am going to use and will decide that later in the build when I have the engine. My current obsession is safety wire and suitable pliers(for locking off nuts and bolts) as well as the paint /sealant to use to show if a nut has been loosened. One other obsession is the corrosion protection that everyone says you dont need unless you go on water. AAAhhh hurry up 25th I can't wait much longer...

 

 

Would have liked to order the Kit 2 too, but orderd kind of a Kit 1 instead. Had some trouble with the german distributor at first. You know, it is not so easy to built a plane in germany. You have to have the permission of the importeur!!! Had a real good offer from the france dealer.... they were 30% cheaper. But I had to buy in germany in order to get his permission and aid with the tons of paperwork. Maybe I can order the next Kit stages elsewere. But that is far in the future.I ordered the hookup, lower parachute lines and the parking brake too. Also I took dubblesteering. I don't know about the cabin heat. I was under the impression that was standard!?

I will get my kit delivered to my doorstep. It should take 2 - 4 weeks, I was told.

 

Did you find a good source for additionell clecos?

Which French dealer did you try? It is the same problem for me in a way, it is nearer and easier for me to go directly to Italy, but the French dealer must do the registration and paperwork. I am however lucky that the Dealer I used is very good and willing to help.

I havent looked for additional Clekos yet as I was hoping there would be enough in the kit....

 

They offered to deliver to my house for very reasonable price but I would have to organise unloading from a large truck and it couldn't get to our front door. Still ICP is only 3 to 4 jours by car from here.

 

 

Tha

 

Hey, greatings to france.I ordered my kit monday January 9.... so I can easily understand you excitement.

What options did you choose?

 

Perhaps you can shorten the waitingtime by preparing the garage and building a workbench... Still can't decide the right size???

Thank you, and congratulations on your order too. I have gone for the Kit 2 with, hooks to hang the plane from the roof, electric flaps, carpets, exhaust with cabin heat, straps for the parachute but the chute I will order later, Parking brake, adjustable pilot side seat.

I will source the engine separately and have an option on a 80 hp Rotax fully rebuilt, so hopefully that will work out.

 

How about you? Which options did you choose and what about delivery? I am currently struggling to fix a suitable date to go and collect it, hopefully the 25th or 26th.

 

I started clearing and preparing my garage in June and so far have managed to move the same pile of junk from one side of the garage to the other enough times to tile underneath.

 

 

My 4 year old daughter asks "Why don't the people have any bodies?"I was going to ask why they look p*ssed off, maybe it's because of that!

Because they can't respect the weight limits for ULMs in France if they have bodies ;)

 

 

Well I have gone and done it now! Just ordered my Savannah S kit and options from Italy, just remains to pay for it and pick it up in a couple of weeks :) Just very slightly excited......

 

 

Hello,

 

does anyone have a drawing of how to make a shroud to provide cabin heating on a standard cylindrical exhaust ?

 

Rotax 80HP engine that is.

 

 

HAHA youve more to do than me!! much more room than I have though, spent most of my time moving the same stuff from one side of the garage to the other to tile the floor, which is now almost done bar some grouting.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi all

I have just done the over 2000 km round trip to pick it up and bring it home and it will be a week or so while I clean up my mess of a garage to give me the room to do all of this. I will post plenty of pictures of the progress and what I am doing. This also is for my requirement now with documentation etc for the new Tech manual rules.

 

Mark

Who are you trying to kid we all know a real mans garage can't be cleaned up in any less than a life time!

 

Looking forward to seeing this one progress. The damage looks bad but I guess when you start to strip it back it soon becomes what can be salvaged and what needs to be replaced.

 

 

Don't tell the Czech Republic that - with their lovely 3, 5 and 7 cylinder Scarlett radials from Vernermotor ...137hp at 2200rpm, 83kg, no reduction gearing required, magnesium crankcase ...

 

And their 69kg 83hp 5cyl version might suit the Jabby well perhaps?

OOOooohhh that is nice. The Czechs make some amazing stuff!

 

 

Great idea this, shame I don't live in Australia

 

 

There are several possible answers:

1. A severe case of Tallpoppyitis.
    
    
   
2. No politician has a grubby finger in the company, so there is no chance that the company will receive R&D support money, operating grants or export assistance.
    
    
   
3. Private aviation of the type that a Jabiru fulfills requires allocation of infrastructure which could otherwise be converted for short term financial gain by organisations and individuals who are prepared to fill the coffers of political parties and members of the politician class.
    
    
   

 

 

OME

I see that Cessna are now 'officially' junking their remaining inventory of unsold Skycatchers - stuffing them into garbage skips, without even (it appears) stripping them of useful parts. Cessna had earlier stated that they would be using their unsold inventory (about 80 of the apparently around 280 produced) as spares to support the poor bloody 200 or so actual owners.)Cessna says there is no future position for them in the LSA-class market. Since they now own both Piper and Beechcraft, that's it for the three major players in the world market for smaller aircraft. Piper rapidly abandoned their 'aftermarket badging' sales of the Czech Sportcruiser (??) thing, and Beechcraft never even tried.

 

SO: the world's largest and most successful light aircraft company cannot make a decent LSA-class aircraft... yet a small Australian company has produced almost 10 times that number of LSA-class aircraft.. Sold world-wide, and with a superb reputation for the safety (in particular) of the airframe, but also admirable for being an honest, competitively-performing, no-vices for flying, cheap to buy and maintain, all-around decent-thing, aircraft.

 

Jabirus aren't 'sexy', and the performance figures for their advertising are rock-solid honest (you can cruise at a decent speed in Australian rough-air conditions at usually better than a heap of the Euro stuff). . If you own a Jabiru, you don't get people in the Clubhouse drooling over the looks. BUT: they do the job. A Jab. 430 will haul a load equivalent to a C172 as well, or better, than a C172 - at a price of 1/3rd a new C172 if you are willing to build a 430, and WAY lower running cost. And it will tolerate rough strips and take a bulky load easily.

 

In the strictly LSA class, the Jab. 230 has NO competition for overall utility. No, it isn't STOL, nor does it cruise at 125 kts (in smooth air.. flying off and onto bitumen strips). But you CAN chuck the camping gear contents of the back of your Prado into it and head off around Australia..

 

SO: can anyone answer me this: why does it seem that so many Australians want to tear down Jabiru, when no other company world-wide can match its basically good features?

 

Cessna could not build a decent competitor. Are there any other competitors out there that I have missed?

I don't want to upset anyone in Australia but I think the answer is that you have kept the self deprecating gene from you British ancestors. We have a tendency to love all things foreign and slag off anything home grown, no matter how good it is. Jab have a poor reputation in Europe but that is more to do with the logistics of maintaining the supplies for spares and service, added to which is an abundance of home (noticeably non British) grown equipment. I hope Jabiru will survive and develop it is always a good thing to have alternatives and choice, and Australians should be mightily proud that have such a company and are the only country I know that still produces a radial engine! Keep it up.

 

 

First of all congratulations! I have done 21 hours and not soloed yet, my son did 8 and went solo. For me the problem has been that I started with one instructor and have changed 4 times before settling down with the current chap. I also have to fight my child like sense of amazement that first of all we are flying and secondly that the pilot is willing to let me take the controls.

 

 

Hi again;The rectangular cut-out holds both the rocker switch and the LED indicator side by side. Those were supplied with my kit in 2010 but I purchased one of the last Savannah kits that Eric Giles sold before moving to another line of aircraft. (He previously owned "SkyKits" and now owns "World Aircraft Company".) Mine was a kit that he had on hand. I didn't even ask if was a basic kit or if there were any options.

Don't let the mess in the picture deter you - that was during disassembly to remove the bent support and I had removed every zip tie. The wiring is time consuming but working one circuit at a time simplifies everything and when it is all tied up with a red bow, it is neat and tidy. This is how it looked after reassembly:

 

[ATTACH=full]47280[/ATTACH]

 

The "carbon fiber" is automotive-grade adhesive vinyl.

 

All the best; I think you'll be very happy with the Savannah - don't expect to get it assembled in 200 - 400 hours though!

 

Dan

What a difference a day makes! That is a very neat installation and it all looks very spacious under there. I am considering either the Avmap system including 7" display with separate efis and engine monitor, the MGL 8.5" lite box that seems to do everything or if money becomes no option the Dynon skyview in 8.5" (but this option is very confusing and seems to need lots of "extras" to get close to the MGL. In addition to the minimum altimeter, airspeed etc I will have a Trig radio and Transponder (already being prepared) and possibly a seperate clock/timer from MGL. The flaps will be the Flybox switch and actuator. It is all very confusing and I am not really sure about the "additional" bits that link it all together. Still good fun and passes the time whilst I await the kit :)

 

 

Fantastic!

 

 

Have a look at the site, the 'Approach and landing' sketches are in the 'Visiting / weather' section of the site in windows .PDF form. . . Phil's 'Corel Draw 9' artwork at it's best ( ! )

othertonairfield.co.uk

 

Otherton 25L approach V7.pdf

 

07R Approach

 

 

 

Hi Phil

 

that is brilliant little site you have there! I really like the airfield too, more runways than Heathrow. You really brought home one of the problems with the ultra light scene, which is its origin in small field operation. It seems that there are two ways to learn (here in France at least) one is to get your basic skills to get off the ground and then back safely and the other is to learn more or less how they teach the PPL. I am lucky and am learning more or less the PPL route, so airfield etiquette is a major part of what we learn, partly due the shared airfield and partly due to the instructors being all PPL trained. There are plenty of places that offer training that seems to end when you do your first solo , but that wasn't for me, I need to have the discipline that my current club offers to feel safe in the air, especially as we operate under the flight path of a major airport.

 

 

Hello Richard;These pictures might be of some help. The first pair are the original support and console which came with my 2010 Sav VG XL Kit - these parts became damaged and were replaced. The kit was ordered with the stock instrument package (except radio). The pre-cut openings were 3 1/8" for the Tach/Hobbs, Alt, VSI and IAS; 2 1/4" for the slip indicator, fuel pressure and radio and 2" for oil temp, oil pressure, voltmeter, outside/abx switchable temp and two cylinderHead temp gauges. I used the "extra" hole to mount an airworthiness plaque required in Canada.

[ATTACH]47266[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47267[/ATTACH]

 

After the original support and console were damaged, I ordered replacements (using the same part numbers) and the next picture shows the parts I received. The last picture illustrates how I re-arranged my console during the repair. I bored a 2" hole where the rectangular Trim Switch was to be and re-cut an opening for it on the left side of the panel. I believe these are the "new" type of panels supplied as stock - they permit removal of the instrument cluster without disturbing the throttles, the choke, carb heated air control, ignition switch etc. It caused me some angst at first because I was looking for a "bolt-in" replacement part, but I acknowledge it is an improvement over my original setup and I was able to re-use all the original instruments by mounting the plaque in a 2 1/4" hole rather that a 2" hole as on the original.

 

[ATTACH]47268[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47269[/ATTACH]

 

Perhaps all this can be of some help. All the best, Season's Greetings;

 

Canada Dan

Hi Dan

thank you that is very useful I had read about the new panel arrangement but not seen one before. I am toying with the idea of either an Avmap based system or MGL's efis. What I might do is order a spare blank panel or cut one for myself and make up two options. Is the original square cut out for the trim indicator, or the switch? It isn't clear what comes with the kit as they offer an LED trim indicator as a rather expensive add on. Your phot of the cockpit waiting for the instruments looks a little scary in terms of wiring but I guess all makes sense when you actually put it together.

 

I like the carbon finish to your panel, is that a vinyl wrap or did you really cover in carbon?

 

Many thanks for the post

 

Richard

 

 

Not sure where you are, but the easiest way is to have a look at another Savannah and check it out. I am at Gawler in SA if that is any help. I have a plywood template and could mark the supports on it. Otherwise I could make a drawing if you cannot find a Savannah to inspect. John

Thanks for the offer John. I am in France near to Geneva, I am off to order the kit from the factory in a couple of weeks and wanted to see if they could cut the dash to suit my choice of instruments. It is a little chicken and egg without the size of the dash to see what can fit and how to arrange it. I could still use a basic hand sketch with dimensions. Again thank you.

 

 

Found this fwiwhttp://www.solvents.net.au/index_htm_files/ALODINE 600 BRUSH APP (169621).pdf

Thanks, the process seems too simple somehow. The real problem seems to be what to do with the waste.

 

 

I am looking for something with good STOL capability, ease of build, and affordability. A couple that seem to meet those criteria are the Kitfox and the Zenith STOL 750.

Just about to start an ICP Savannah which may be of interest to you, very similar to the Zenair but an easier build.... Maybe

 

 

Qantas A-380 @ Singapore,. . . / Sully and his Hudson gig . . .more or less puts AI in perspective I think Sir,. . . Could the Super computers have done a better job ? ? ? but jocularity aside for a moment, maybe we are Wrong ?. . .perhaps a newer technology will consign our opinions to the dustcart of ancient history. . . ?Somehow, . . .wearing my cynical hat,. . .I strongly doubt it with present and recently promulgated 'Future' technology. . . .we ought to be whizzing to Mars on vacation by now, . . .according to 'Tomorrow's World, BBC, 1965. . . . .what the hell went wrong with that ?

I think we have spent too long developing clever software and not enough time doing things. Since all our brightest minds spend their time simulating or programming they are not out in the shed making those Mars bound rocket ships.

I remember thinking when I was a child that for a computer to replace a human it would have to be programmed the same way as we were, it would need the same senses and experiences and would take roughly as long to programme. So why bother making an artificial human when making a real one is relatively easy and fun? That way more time in the shed too.

 

 

Anodising is only a dye applied to an oxide formed on the surface electrically. Mainly for looks. All thin coats are subject to scratching abrading. Galvanic protection involves a sacrificial aspect of a more chemically active coating. Not easy with magnesium for instance where extensive chemical treatment is needed to passivate it. Nev

Long time since I studied materials. The chap explained that the oxide layer is porous and the dye effectively seals the surface, if no dye is used then the oxide can provide a very good key for painting. The ideal would be anodise the enclosed surfaces and paint the external, which isn't really practical, although it would look good :)