Airspace VFR and maximum altitude

[Ian]

Just a question about the current state of the airspace.

This PDF has the following. Above FL245 outside radar coverage, Above FL180 within radar coverage

Whereas Airservices provides the an airspace definition on here which states that class A is from 18000-60000 feet. 

I suppose the key question is which is correct and are the radar boundaries accurately defined?

[facthunter]

All IFR above FL 210.  There's charts showing radar coverage which is being reduced.  Nev

[Ian]

Hi Facthunder,

Would you know where this is codified/legistlated?

So even if you're in class E airspace at FL 230 you must be IFR, or is the CASA document out of date?

Also what happens above 60,000 are you VFR again? 

[facthunter]

Airspace has lateral boundaries also It  doesn't cover all of the sky. IFR relates to a means of navigating. It's just not considered practical to navigate by visual waypoints abv FL 210. Nev

[Garfly]

 

From a similar discussion on a Pilots of America forum:  "VFR above FL 180 Yes?...No?...Maybe?"

 

vontresc said: ↑

Well above FL600 you are VFR on top again 

You can be. In my experience the aircraft that can get up there just cancel IFR as they climb above Class A airspace.

 

 

 

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/vfr-above-fl-180-yes-no-maybe.37858/

[Ironpot]

2 hours ago, Ian said:

Would you know where this is codified/legistlated?

AIP ENR 1.4

[Ian]

Clear as mud without a map of radar coverage. 😉

 

However the AIP ENR 1.4 provides a more detailed version of the current CASA pdf extracts below.

I couldn't find any reference in AIP ENR 1.4 relating to FL210 so is this a rule of thumb or a defined ceiling?

 

So, aside from the practical limit, you could in theory, VRF to FL245 outside radar coverage zones. (If you had a definition of what the radar zones are, for example do they change during rain periods) 

If practicability is an issue you could of course do VFR on top at FL245 of invisibly wispy cloud. Of course you might want oxygen and a mask as canulas aren't rated at that altitude.

 

Not saying that this is gospel however it would be nice to set a few bounds. As more zones decommissioned due to ATSB the non-radar areas may expand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

One other thing that was of interest is that the boundary is regarded as existing in the less restrictive airspace.

[Ian]

5 hours ago, Garfly said:

You can be. In my experience the aircraft that can get up there just cancel IFR as they climb above Class A airspace.

 

 

 

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/vfr-above-fl-180-yes-no-maybe.37858/

 

The best part of this is when the persons experience of this practice is queried.

 

[Garfly]

Yeah, and surprisingly, in the end, the guy had a pretty good answer.

 

 

JeffDG said: ↑

And just how much experience do you have with aircraft that climb up above FL600?

Damn little, and none since I left ZAU. Twenty some years ago a NASA ER-1 was doing some atmospheric research out of KMSN. The pilot would request an unrestricted climb to FL 610, leaving FL 600 he'd call to say, "cancel my IFR."

[facthunter]

Probably to do with comms. Who else is likely to be anywhere near you at those levels? Nev

[F10]

I was wondering, does it matter? You look at a chart, and whatever it says the lower limits are, so be it. Surely ATS can choose heights of A and E, according to what will facilitate traffic control? For example, the C height fans, on approach routes to some regional airports?

[facthunter]

I  recall they altered the  lower limits east of Mt ISA when the B727's couldn't guarantee to reach them on departure. Nev