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The '10 litre No Take Off ' placard.


Guest Andrew.B.

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Guest Andrew.B.

In the Gazelle, on each side, there is a fuel quantity inspection window. On each window there is a line and a placard which seems to tell me that at the level of the line there is 10 litres of fuel on board and that at this low fuel quantity take off is prohibited.

 

I have 4 questions about this.

 

1) Is take off prohibited if just one tank quantity is at or below the line ; or is it only

 

prohibited if both tanks are at or below the line ?

 

2) In any case, why is take off prohibited ?

 

3) If both tank quantities are on the line, is the total fuel on board the aircraft

 

10 litres, or is it 10 + 10 = 20 litres ?

 

4) If I was airborne and the fuel dropped to the level of the line, am I still

 

allowed to land ? (!)

 

Thanks,

 

Andrew.

 

 

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Guest High Plains Drifter

4/ No, you should crash immediately 006_laugh.gif.0f7b82c13a0ec29502c5fb56c616f069.gif

 

Andrew.B., what does the aircraft flight manual say about fuel ?

 

.

 

 

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I'd suggest land as soon as possible, while there may be 20 litres left, I'd suggest not all that is useable (potentially half of it - 5 litres either side) in which case you only have about 35 mins of fuel left assuming a fuel burn of about 15L/HR.

 

On a similar topic, our CT4 has an interesting fuel placard placard - required by CASA directive - which states (and I kid you not) "When fuel indicator reads ZERO, fuel remaining in tank cannot be safely used in flight" - thanks Captain Obvious for that one!

 

 

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Guest High Plains Drifter

Just had a talk to the chap who did a lot of the original test flying of the Gazelle.

 

Apparently the 10 litre no fly markings were an unchanged carry over from the conventinal geared fox. Appears the limit was more a liabilitie type thing - keep in mind it was the same tanks and fuel line pickup as the tail wheel. There is also the collecter/ header tank in the line as well.

 

It is probably prudent good practice NOT to t/o with less then the placarded limits.

 

I also note the placard is a take off limitation not an inflight limitation.

 

IF your flight researves are actualy less then the T/O limitation, I can not see any problem with flying with less then the T/O limited fuel amount. Be aware of any fuel imbalence if doing extended slips - there is not that much fuel in the collecter tank.

 

Consult the flight manual for guidence.

 

Please note my disclaimer below...

 

 

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Guest brentc

Does anyone remember how Cessna nearly went broke when they were sued because someone crashed after running out of fuel because there were no placquards telling them that they will crsh if they run out of fuel or similar?

 

There is always an un-usable quantity of fuel in any tank and the designers have specified a reasonably high number for the Gazelle.

 

 

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How far will 10 litres of fuel take you? My plane will possibly run for an hour on 10 l but there is no margin for error. What happens if the airstrip becomes unusable? Will you have enough fuel to land somewhere else?

 

My personal limitation is to have at least 10 litres of fuel before any take off, even to do a circuit, which will take about 8 minutes.

 

 

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Why do it?

 

Why bother to put yourself in this position? It's not necessary. The aeroplane still uses fuel at the same rate if you have a bit more. They say "the only time you have too much fuel on board is when you are on fire". Most of us do not know what amount of fuel will be left when the engine splutters due to fuel starvation as the only way you can know that is to operate in that regime, regularly. Not something to be proud of.

 

Have you ever considered that someone may roll an aeroplane into a ball and render the runway unuseable for a while. Don't tell me it's a what-if. It's happened quite a few times, and how silly would it look if you had taken off with a miniscule amount of fuel, when you didn't have to, and that's always. Nev...

 

 

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Guest Decca

Hi Andrew. Sorry I’m late getting into this thread but that won’t matter because you have had constructive help all the way.

 

Answers: 1) This statement is a LIMITATION, & LIMITATIONS are the scriptures of aviation. Where I come from, limitations are only secondary to emergency procedures, & then only when there is one of these happening. Because there is no other way, the way I read it is that if I had 9.9litres in the left tank & 24.0litres in the right tank, I could not take off until I did something about it.

 

I’d suggest that a touch’n’go is also a take-off, so if each tank qty was 10litres or under on your pre-landing check it might well be below the limitation by the time you commence power application for the “goâ€.

 

2) I don’t know, because the PFM (oops, 025_blush.gif.9304aaf8465a2b6ab5171f41c5565775.gif sorry, the AFM) doesn’t tell me. But you can bet the CASA legal people vetted this document too….. BUT I shall attempt to find out.

 

3) The fuel tank indicators show contents for the fuel in each tank, & if you have 10litres in each you are legal to take off. (Total = 20litres).

 

4) See post No2. VERY funny HPD.;) Seriously Andrew, you can land if you have zero fuel in your tanks (you are going to have to), but I don’t recommend waiting ‘til then; the authorities won’t be happy.

 

The answer to question 5 (the un-asked question) is that you can “go around†until you run out, because that is not an element of the limitations. Once again, though, not advisable.

 

Regards, Decca.

 

 

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Guest ozzie

In GA I belive that you have to land with your 45 mins reserve remaining.

 

Is there not a similar reg for these peusdo GA types.?

 

Ozzie

 

 

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"When fuel indicator reads ZERO, fuel remaining in tank cannot be safely used in flight"

is commonly found in American Flight Manuals. The origin is in FAR 23:
Each fuel quantity indicator must be calibrated to read "zero" during level flight when the quantity of fuel remaining in the tank is equal to the unusable fuel supply ...

 

"Fill her up mate!"

With my weight, I like to consider other limitations that may be in the Flight Manual. eg with the aeroplane that I normally fly: myself plus wife and a toothbrush plus half fuel is max gross weight.
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Guest Decca

Yes Ozzie, and Matt wouldn't be far off with his estimate. 45mins in the Gazelle is 10.5 litres (5+ litres per tank), but I need to check the AFM to get an accurate indicated fuel once I confirm what the "unusable" is.

 

Decca.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest ramcam

I think the ops manual says about 1/2 an hour.

 

To me the legality and practice are simple. As pilot in command, you are in charge. If you run out of fuel in the air, then you are liable. Just remember that you also have a header tank in the back which also holds a substancial amount of fuel as well

 

 

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