bruce01 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Hi Guys, Was on the ground the other day when 2 airforce trainers went past very low and fast. As I operate out of a CTAF-R , I was wondering, should their activity be listed in the current Notams for the area. Went home and checked on the pilot briefing service but could not find anything listed in the notam section. Just a bit concerned as I fly a microlight with a slow wing that if I wasn't aware of their presence, even with radio contact, they could be apon me before I could reply to their transmission. Cheers, Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 a bit concerned as I fly a microlight Dont worry about them - they know what their doin. I had a white civvy jet fly low over my farm the other day, hotly pursued by a military jet - some training exercise I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Coates Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Nope... They are not training... That's the new agressive way of getting unpaid landing fees ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basscheffers Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Dont worry about them - they know what their doin. They do? Do a google on mid-airs between fighter jets and light aircraft - it wouldn't be the first time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 It would be a naive approach to ignore low level military fighters because you feel that they know what they are doing. This kind of activity would nornally be in the Notam's but often under the area briefing rather than the specific airfield. Eg. If there was low level Jet activity for Bathurst, it would appear under Sydney. But that being said it may not have been there at all as you have suggested. Whilst they probably have radar etc their sheer speed when operating in a CTAF does make you wonder if they will see you in time and realistically if you're in the right place at the wrong time, things could get interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ROM Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I think we have it easy in Australia when it comes to military and civil aviation mixing it at low levels. Don't know if this is still the case but in Sweden a couple of decades ago, all military pilots had to go through a glider training course. The end result was that when a couple of ex glider fighter pilots spotted any glider minding his own business, winding up in a thermal, they took every opportunity to line him up and belted past usually one on each side of the glider and often doing rolls as they did so. Needless to say it shook the furniture rather vigorously as far as the poor glider pilot was concerned much to the delight of the jet jockeys. In an instance at a world gliding comps in the USA a few years back, an Australian pilot was caught where he shouldn't have been, at low level right over the end of a military airfield, trying to climb out in a weak thermal at a couple of thousand feet. He watched with some trepidation as a couple of Phantoms lined up for take off below him. They opened up, blasted down the runway and rotated into the vertical and blew right on up past him with one on each side and both rolled in so that as they went past the jet jockeys gave him a big wave and a big grin or at least he thought so as he was too busy hanging on from being bounced around from the slip stream effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Have always wondered about that myself.... Because we get a lot of activity out here, (Cecil Plains), where they fly low, mainly a lot of Choppers, but just the other day we had two jets go over in loose formation, and one did a nice barrel roll over the house, (they where probably at about 2-3000ft this time though)... I have to laugh though, a few yrs ago we had a builder out putting some new iron on the roof, and some sort of jet did a really low pass directly over the house...Now I mean LOW PASS... the poor builder got such a fright that he fell over, and slid down the roof and hit the gutter...! could have been more serious, but it was a good laugh when his nerves where back to normal... I love em flying around though.... bring it on.... Ps. One other day we had a C130 do a 200ft fly over the shed too... at first we thought it was in trouble and was going to land... the reason I know it was at 200ft was because a few days later I had the chance to talk to the fella's who new about it.... just some low level flying fun....:big_grin: Cheers, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barefootpilot Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 They will know your there if you are in something like a 172 or bigger. Something like a Trike or Thruster you are invisible. They will often be "No Comms" (So no radio's at all) while they are low level so they only way you will know they are there is if Centre make an all stations call for them or you hear them before they drop down. I've had a few close calls the last one was in the Willy Town CTR I'm sure they had me on their radar but I didn't know they where there and Approach didn't tell me either all I saw was One F-18 pull up from about 200' and climb through my level opposite direction shortly follow by 3 more in formation straight over the top of me by about 200'. It would have been a great site if I had of known it was coming but scared the life out of me and my pax as I was on approach at the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest weekendwarrior Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I'd like to think they are not flying low above residential areas, where they would respect the 1500ft AGL rule. And at least they have the luxury to be able to convert speed to height, unlike the nice looking 24 registered aircraft who passed low (500ft and I am generous) and slow above Kincumber NSW Central Coast yesterday around noon... Wonder which rooftop he or she would have choosed to land on in case of an engine failure ? Sorry if I am off topic but that's a pet hate of mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I had a run-in with the Roulettes 1 day after getting my licence in my Aerochute. scared the crap out of my passenger! (got my pax endo with cert for those that are wondering why) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barefootpilot Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Casa Rules don't apply to the Defence Force so they can go where they want when they want if you have the right reason for it. I heard a Hawk call a mayday a few months ago he was doing some "low flying" and hit a power line his wing man was sitting up at flight levels so I'm not 100% sure he was meant to be where he was at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest extralite Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 If its in WA (Newman) than most likely he is talking about PC 9 which will be doing low level navigation training at 200 feet agl. No radar and usually nocom. Visual lookout is drummed into the student who is sitting in the front seat. Depending on the student, and his progress through the course, lookout may not be that good, especially if he is lost, or focused on another task. So cant assume they will be perfect. SOme students may only have 200 hours all up. The object of the excercise is to arrive over a point within 10 seconds so there is a lot going on inside their head. The instructor sits in the back and keeps a very good lookout. However, his/her view is a somewhat obstructed by the seat in front. It could also be a HAwk trainer. GOing much faster..objects staionary in the windscreen even harder to see in time at that speed. Notams should normally be issued, but the aircraft often divert as part of the trainging so they are general in nature. If you are around Perth, and operating for extended periods betwween 150-300 feet (margin of error), then the crop dusters and skydiving ops will often have a notam issued which will then be taken into account durring route planning. It could be worth setting up a similiar arrangement if thats possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cralis Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Reminds me of this. Possibly a myth, but... nevertheless.. Two British traffic patrol officers from North Berwick were involved in an unusual incident while checking for speeding motorists on the A1 Great North Road. One of the officers used a hand held radar device to check the speed of a vehicle approaching over the crest of a hill, and was surprised when the speed was recorded at over 300 mph. Their radar suddenly stopped working and the officers were not able to reset it. Just then a deafening roar over the tree tops revealed that the radar had in fact latched on to a NATO Tornado fighter jet which was engaged in low flying exercise over the Border district, approaching from the North Sea. Back at police headquarters the chief constable fired off a stiff letter of complaint to the RAF Liaison Office. By return came the reply in true laconic RAF style: "Thank you for your message, which now allows us to complete the file on this incident. You may be interested to know that the tactical computer in the Tornado had detected the presence of, and subsequently locked onto, your hostile radar equipment and automatically sent a jamming signal back to it. Furthermore, an air-to-ground missile aboard the fully-armed aircraft had also automatically locked onto your equipment. Fortunately the pilot flying the Tornado recognized the situation for what it was, quickly responded to the missile systems alert status, and was able to override the automated defence system before the missile was launched and your hostile radar installation was destroyed. Good Day" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Low flying! Heres an oldy - YouTube - F-111 Low Pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 haha...awesome...:thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce01 Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Don't know what type of aircraft they were but they were single engine props, flying side by side and no more than about 200 agl. They were about 2 nautical miles from the Newman airport. Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Single engine props would be the PC9's. Nice machine and I'd buy one if I had a few spare mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLA82 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Single engine props would be the PC9's. Nice machine and I'd buy one if I had a few spare mil. Brent I hope we don't win the same lotto because we would be racing to the same place trying to buy the same plane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 The UK is the place for low flying. I have been bushwalking and seen a pair of fighters go past below me many times and I have seen a Hercules hopping over the hedges. The lowest was a Chinook who went past just the other side of a hedge and I never saw more than the tips of the rotors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngmic Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I think the concept of believing they have radar that will identify low level traffic is a bit Walter Mitty. That is why they liase so closely with Aerial Ag operators when they are at the planning stage, at least they did up around the Moree area. Talk to a few Ag pilots and you will find a few that can tell a story of close-ish calls with fast jets. Mil fast jets are classic examples of the principal of the big sky theory. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Years ago, when I was but a lad in the RAF, and before the event of terrain following radar, a training flight was organised for some Hunter Pilots. A line of large red flags were attached to trees and buildings right across the country. I'm not sure of the intervals between each flag but obviously they could be seen by the pilots quite clearly. On the day of the test, I think it was 6 Hunters had to fly, flat out, and below 100 feet along the line. To say it was impressive is an understatement. They howled over in line astern and all made it to the other end. There was a lot pre info if I remember correctly, even our squadron was grounded for an hour or so. On my wish list, a Hunter T7 would be second to a Lightning T4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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