winsor68 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXmrMxytqjw Uploaded by StevieBell100 on Jan 6, 2012 Franks first solo flight, and first flight in his own aircraft, he had recently been learning in a different wing and discovered that the wing and aircraft handles very differently without the weight of a passenger. Just to add to his fun the wind switched directions while he was up, none of us realised and so his first landing attempt was aborted when things got out of shape. He recovered well, got down safely and gave us all something to talk about. N.B. This is not the youtube channel of the Ra-Aus Tech Manager... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 N.B. This is not an Ra-Aus flight training facility.. Regards ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 OMG, that he didnt kill himself was more a matter of good luck than good management by his instructor, and what must the other airfield users have thought, I can only image what the driver of the ute on the taxi way waiting to enter the main runway would have thought??? I wonder if he went on to get his full licenses or if that experience cured him of all need to do any further flying...... To me , to send someone solo, in an aircraft they havent flown before is insane. Just getting used to the change in performance one up vs 2 up in the usual aircraft is enough difference. I dont know who the instructor is, but Im totally unimpressed to say the least. An instructor is supposed to be a leader, lead, dont be led. The student might really have wanted his aircraft but the instructor should have hosed that down in microseconds. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Andy, Lot more to it than what you see on the video. That's his second instructor, the first wouldn't let him go solo after about 38hrs training and you can see why, so he got the car car poo poo's and found another. I am quite sure the second instructor spent some decent time with him and flew with him in his trike before letting him do his "attempted" solo. If you want to know anything else PM me. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 even so, sending him off at that time of day instead of early morning when it is smoother was a bit dumb as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Looks a bit hair raising. You get complex problems where a pilot has done heaps of hours and not gone solo. The change with weight loss due to the absence of the instructor is a thing that is often not mentioned. In some aircraft there is a massive trim change too,( like a DHC-1 Chipmunk where the instructor is seated a long way aft and you need more back stick for a 3 pointer, once he/she is not there). A go around from a low level can be a very critical manoeuver especially if you are really slow (airspeed -wise). Perhaps they should be practiced more before solo. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Andy,Lot more to it than what you see on the video. That's his second instructor, the first wouldn't let him go solo after about 38hrs training and you can see why, so he got the car car poo poo's and found another. I am quite sure the second instructor spent some decent time with him and flew with him in his trike before letting him do his "attempted" solo. If you want to know anything else PM me. Alf Alf if that was the case, (instructor instructed in the students aircraft) and that flight was 1st solo then by no measure I know of (with what can be seen on that video....which is itself limiting and probably a reason for being less than definitive...) was that student ready to go up byhimself. I still maintain it was a bad decision that potentially could have killed the student and adversly affected the instructor for life, and you, me and other recreational flyers just becasue we fly. More power to the first instructor who to me, on what I see, was spot on! And that final landing.......that was a crash, not a landing, he stalled it about 6ft up, I'd hate to see the base tube I bet its buckled just in front of the seat and the bungies/ nylon deflection limiting straps are probably shot as well. To me there are good pilots, average pilots, and those that need to take up some other form of recreational activity Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Andy, Your preaching to the converted mate , I agree totally 110% Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Quite interesting that this above youtube video that I made commented on, the comment is now spam, obviously they (I know most of these people) didn't like what i wrote. I say it like this, if you don't want comments or critisizm don't put the thing on for all to see. The student wasn't the only one passing bricks I bet, all on the ground were too by what i saw in the video. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 even so, sending him off at that time of day instead of early morning when it is smoother was a bit dumb as well. Nice one Ozzie ......(avatar as well !! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 This sort of thing explains why there are trikes on the market, at too good to be true prices, and with bent base bars! N.B. This is not an Ra-Aus flight training facility.. Regards ....... So why is it posted in "RAA Incidents and Accidents"? .... Should have been on "Aircraft Pilots" site. I just knew this site split would never work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Baa Baa Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Andy,Lot more to it than what you see on the video. That's his second instructor, the first wouldn't let him go solo after about 38hrs training and you can see why, so he got the car car poo poo's and found another. I am quite sure the second instructor spent some decent time with him and flew with him in his trike before letting him do his "attempted" solo. If you want to know anything else PM me. Alf Was this in Australia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yep, Latrobe Valley in Gippsland , Victoria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Baa Baa Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yep,Latrobe Valley in Gippsland , Victoria Even HGFA require the rego numbers on the wing so I take it the trike was not registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 That i cannot answer, I was not there, only seen the video on youtube and didn't even notice if there were numbers on the wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Even HGFA require the rego numbers on the wing so I take it the trike was not registered. .....which explains the "abbreviated call" he made just prior to entering the runway only used 2 numbers, Microlight 61. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Baa Baa Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 .....which explains the "abbreviated call" he made just prior to entering the runway only used 2 numbers, Microlight 61. sounds a bit to much like a stich up to me Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 if it was a 'nano trike' <75kg, hgfa, then no rego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ozzie Its hard to tell from the video at the standard resolution but theres no way thats a nano, nanos are only single seat and we've been told that the instructor went up in it with him..... it looks like an early model 582 engine which is between approx 40 and 50kg's with the gearbox which doesnt leave too much for the prop, wing and base. In fact to me looks like an early model Airborne model....Buzzard I think they were called? I think that because all the tubing is anodized rathrer than the white paint of the more recent Airborne trikes Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steviebell100 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Its an Airborne Edge Executive 582 with Wizard Wing and is a 2 seat trike. It is currently registered with the HGFA and does have numbers on the wing. I've only just learned about this forum and to be blunt I'm a dissapointed in much of the commentary I've read here which to me is largely ill informed, unobservant and kneejerk. It criticises and chastises individuals rather than providing a healthy analysis that could be of real benefit. There are a number of good and relevant issues that could be constructively discussed and I will do my best to identify relevant ones for this forum. Please Assume that the instructor is fully competant and did everything right, I can tell you that a few weeks prior he had a check flight with a well respected and experienced CFI examiner who assessed him as ready to go Solo. First Flight Nerves how many of the issues all come back to this, how does anyone really know what's going to happen when the instructor steps out and with the students safety net removed what can happen? he is not the first nor will he be the last that seem to do everything right with the instructor but when they go solo they seem to forget everything they have learned. After that take off you could imagine that he would be unhinged for the rest of the flight? His foot slipped on the accelerator on take off, nerves? After the take off he was sensibly encouraged to go for a fly and settle down which he did for about an hour. This is an interesting topic that I'm sure many people can relate to and I'm sure if was discussed some interesting stories would come out. Over Use of Power on take off he clearly had too much throttle, this is a common thing for students on solo who suddenly find themselves without the weight of the instructor, he did adjust and improve throughout the flight and clearly had it sorted when he flew downwind and base for runway 03. Although its a shame that he didnt apply power after the balloon on roundout. By that time he was rattled and just wanted to get it on the ground. The Balloon Wizard wings do this too easily, it was no suprise to me that there was a balloon, without the weight of the instructor there was increased likelyhood that this would happen, his roundout was a little early and a little high, such a pity he didnt get the power back on. Flying the Wing is a Motorskill any microlight pilot knows that you fly best when you dont think about it, you develop a motorskill and just find yourself reacting to the elements and flying the wing. In this video there are two instances where it got out of shape and he recovered on both occasions. Now what I saw was not just one situation but two situations where his instincts eventualy took over, he stopped thinking about it and just reacted. That says to me that there is a pilot there, there are nerves yes, he was either not thinking properly, shaken up after the takeoff, afraid to trust his instincts I dont know, but 2 recoveries on instinct says to me that the all important motorskills are there and with more work he could be ok. The Wind Changed I was standing there watching, videoing and I didn't notice the change in the wind. If you watch closely you will see that when he was coming in on runway 21 he got into a lot of trouble from about 100 feet, the aircraft was all over the place and he didn't seem to have much control, yet when he switched to Runway 03 it just looked a lot better and was so much more stable as he was now coming into the wind. When he took off it was definately right for runway 21, the sock clearly visible in the video shows no sign of the change, but it did change and we all know how a Wizard wing can get caught up in just about everything, this was an unfortunate occurance that further shook up an already nervous and rattled pilot. He didn't Fly the Wing this to me is his biggest issue, he didn't react to keep the wing straight and he didnt have control, this issue was present throughout the flight and did not improve, continually he was getting caught up in the various currents and thermals and didnt have the control to fly through them. I dont know if it was nerves or what it was, we did see him eventually get it right just in a nick of time but in my opinion this is the issue he needs to work on with his instructor. He flew again the following day with his instructor but as yet has not flown since, in the week following this incident his confidence did take a dive and he was considering giving it away, but has now decided to continue, albeit when the basebar is replaced (Bungi's ok). The video is helping him to analyse and put together in his mind what went wrong and what he needs to do. Due to the controversy its been hinted that I may be asked to remove the video, I would be dissapointed if that happens as I think it could be very useful to illustrate to students the potential issues that can arise on flying Solo. I wish him well. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steviebell100 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Quite interesting that this above youtube video that I made commented on, the comment is now spam, obviously they (I know most of these people) didn't like what i wrote.I say it like this, if you don't want comments or critisizm don't put the thing on for all to see. The student wasn't the only one passing bricks I bet, all on the ground were too by what i saw in the video. Alf Alf I didnt remove your comment. As far as I know there is no ability for u-tube account holders to remove unwanted comments. You are correct though in assuming that I didn't like what you wrote. You are also correct in your assumption that those on the ground were very concerned, hence my title Heartstopper.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steviebell100 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Alf I didnt remove your comment. As far as I know there is no ability for u-tube account holders to remove unwanted comments. You are correct though in assuming that I didn't like what you wrote. You are also correct in your assumption that those on the ground were very concerned, hence my title Heartstopper.Steve I just discovered that my above comment is incorrect and that I do in fact have the ability to remove comments at my discretion from posts to my u-tube account but I assure you I didnt.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Steve I guess we will just have to agree to disagree, there are a number of times in that video where the aircraft wing is clearly visible and there are no registration markings visible at all. Given that he called Trike 61 on entering the runway perhaps you could clear up what the registration actually was...... and what it is that you teach in a radio call? Is it acceptable for a student to shorten the registration to the point where no one listening can identify the aircraft acurately? Thre fact that the basebar was indeed bent as I suspected tells me that my original view that he was not at all ready for solo was correct, let alone the 2 major issues on takeoff and landing. If the basebar bent to the point that it needs replacment then are you sure the nylon deflection limit straps are Ok, What does Airborne call for, when a heavy landing that bends the basebar to the point of needing replacment? Im guessing its not just chuck a new base bar on and "she'll be right" ? With the first landing attempt, for just a few seconds I'll bet you had no clue as to whether he had augered in or not. Im sure its usual for students to give their FI a heart jumpstart moment or 2 throughout their entire training, but is it normal for you to have 1/2doz or so in a single solo? Regarding the claim that it was his first solo and first flight of his own aircraft, can you confirm whether that is correct or not please. I still maintain he is lucky to be alive, and thank god it wasnt a streak wing...... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks for your input steve... I reckon although it must be hard to see a lot of the comments in the end these things work themselves out... This was an interesting exercise... It seems this video has stirred things up a little in Ra-Aus as much as elsewhere... These incidents will be talked about whether it among a small group of eyewitnesses or a larger group thanks to the wonders of modern technology... IMO this way at least we all get the benefit of any lessons to be learnt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It's all good stuff for analysis and discussion. Good contribution Steve. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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