BigPete Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Has anyone else noticed a trend of shortning callsign numbers from 4 to 2? What I mean is instead of "Airfield traffic, Bearcat 1, 2, 3, 4 (one, two, three, four) - taxi for runway two three, Airfield" we hear "Airfield traffic, Bearcat 12, 34 (twelve, thirty four) - taxi for runway two three, Airfield" I must admit I don't mind it (although I don't do it) - only 2 numbers to remember and it seems to flow better. Comments ? regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulN Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Hi Pete, From my experience it's not all that uncommon. My callsign is CT3841 (charlie tango three eight four one) and sometimes ATC responds with charlie tango thirty eight forty one. I have also noticed that controllers and other stations invariably get my numbers jumbled, perhaps because they're more familiar with the three alpha character format. On the occasions I have used the two groups of two numbers (38, 41), as you have identified, they are more easily understood and remembered by receiving stations ... so why not do it? Also, once I have establised communications with a station I more often than not drop the charlie tango thing and just call 38, 41. After all, abbreviating callsigns sensibly is an approved practice. Perhaps this method of number calling is a spin off from the way in which the corporate guys make their calls. Rather than spitting out their three alpha identifiers they use their corporate name and flight number, like Jetcraft three sixty one or Rex two fifty three etc. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 In my experience and knowing a few ATCs, they prefer to group characters (as Paul has mentioned) for memory and rhythm, we were Sportstar3978 which was always "Sportstar Thirty Nine Seventy Eight". Similar to Paul, we actually found the numbers being dropped and just Sportstar being used...never found ourselves in the same controlled airspace as another Sportstar. The Canberra controllers sometimes had difficulty and confused the Sunstate callsigns with us as they use 4 digit flight numbers so regularly in Canberra you'd have us "Sportstar 39 78" in the same control zone as "Sunstate 14 15" or similar. Remember a few occasions when we became "Sunstate 39 78"...that always got a chuckle out of us and the controllers. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 I'm aware that there have been some discussions with RAAus about this as well. At Shepparton we now have three Tecnams and you can imagine what happens with them all doing circuits at once - Tecnam 4673, Tecnam 4774, Tecnam 4543. The discussion is about options like dropping the Tecnam, grouping the numbers or going something like Tecnam 73. Still an open question as I understand it. Good points that Paul and Matt make. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 ahhh the joy of having a few Zeros in your rego..... Vampire Zero Seven Eight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 The correct callsign is type and then all four digits. Controllers may ask you to use another callsign if they find it likely to cause any problems, but stick with the correct way and you will be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Vampire 122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I noticed on Avweb today a safety feature that was extolling the virtues of double checking ATC clearances and saying "unable" to anything that was suspect. One example given was concerning callsigns and readbacks. There were a couple of Piper Seminoles in the same area. Callsigns N304PA and N434PA. One was cleared down to 3500' and the other acknowledged using 4PA in his readback. The other plane and the controller never caught on to the discrepancy and the plane flew into the ground. Use the full callsignunless advised otherwise by ATC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Hi Pete, ATC use a process called group form, which is basically the grouping of numbers into pairs or hundreds. If you have a 3 digit number than you group the second and third numbers. So Bernie would be Vampire One Twenty Two Tecnam Forty Six Seventy Three Tecnam Thirty Two Zero Four Virgin Seven Hundred Virgin Seven Zero Two As in the second Virgin and Tecnam callsigns, sometimes the numbers don't work in a group and are then left as single numbers. You can call your call sign as single digits, I don't think it matters, but the ATC will probably come back using their phraseology. It's easier to say and hear and remember two numbers than four numbers. :) Cheers, Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 To be correct, which is what we have to do to be legal, have a look at AIp publication. Gen 3.4-19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Hiya Kaz. Thanks for that - so I did the right thing in grabbing Cheetah fifty-one fifty-one. Too easy. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galpin Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Could I urge all pilots to speak slowly and clearly when using your radio. Countless times I must ask for clarification as a message or call sign has been garbled. Perhaps instructors need to take greater note of students and their radio work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 The AIP ref to aircraft call signs is GEN 4.16 http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/aip/gen/3_4_1-24.pdf I cant find Gen 3.4-19... maybe a typo... ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Longden Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 So, would it then be correct to use the callsign for Tecnam 4774 as "Tecnnam forty seven, seventy four"? Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Agree with shortening RAA callsigns when there's no liklihood of confusion with anyone else's, eg, ' JABIRU 6688 ' could easily reduce to 'JABIRU 88' Seems sensible to leave in the aircraft make so that others looking for you have a better chance of identifying the correct aircraft. It's a necessary discipline to make sure that the mike button is not keyed too late/early, causing 'clipping' of the Tx. Students need to practice lots more than just in the aircraft on the day. I remember spending lots of time practicing my calls in the car before being briefed....and that was back in 1963 when traffic was much lighter than present. Once you've actually voiced the calls aloud, it becomes so much easier to do it airborne. Instructors can only lead the horse to water. happy days, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulN Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Hiya Kaz.Thanks for that - so I did the right thing in grabbing Cheetah fifty-one fifty-one. Too easy. Ross It's so much easier to remember your callsign if it's linked to your age, eh Ross. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 It will be for a year anyway :yuk: Hopefully I'll have it finished by then Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Oops. I was reading an out of date AIP, but it appears that only the number of the paragraph has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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