Wright brothers documentary

[facthunter]

. IF you were briefed accurately on it's Idiosyncrasies you'd have a better chance of managing it. The Wrights had to learn on the job but some gliders would have been similar. Nev

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

. IF you were briefed accurately on it's Idiosyncrasies you'd have a better chance of managing it. The Wrights had to learn on the job but some gliders would have been similar. Nev

Maybe. There was a pretty big queue. I doubt they were going to spend any time briefing people. From memory when it was your turn they might have said something like 'wait until it gets to 25mph then gently pull back'. You've got seconds to work it out before it's someone else's turn. Not a problem the Wright's had 😄

[facthunter]

Depends also on how accurately the sim replicates the plane. Full motion sims do go part way but the stationary ones are just another game. Nev  Looks like I failed to post this earlier. 

[danny_galaga]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

Depends also on how accurately the sim replicates the plane. Full motion sims do go part way but the stationary ones are just another game. Nev  Looks like I failed to post this earlier. 

The fact it was freakin hard to fly tells me it was pretty accurate 😄

[facthunter]

Because it's hard doesn't mean accurate. It may be in an entirely different way to the actual Plane. . Nev

[danny_galaga]

6 hours ago, facthunter said:

Because it's hard doesn't mean accurate. It may be in an entirely different way to the actual Plane. . Nev

You're overthinking it 😃

[facthunter]

I really don't think so but IF the makers of the Sim have done a lot of research maybe the thing is more faithful to the  actual plane. Since most recent piloting  of replica's has not been very successful why would that  sim  be  that realistic? I've followed much of what has been done and have a big interest in early aviation over a long time.   Nev

[danny_galaga]

2 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I really don't think so but IF the makers of the Sim have done a lot of research maybe the thing is more faithful to the  actual plane. Since most recent piloting  of replica's has not been very successful why would that  sim  be  that realistic? I've followed much of what has been done and have a big interest in early aviation over a long time.   Nev

What I mean is it was a bit of fun to help people get immersed in the experience. particularly since you lay prone on a replica of the wing section. They weren't really hoping to churn out thousands of new Wright Flyer pilots

Edited November 8, 2022 by danny_galaga

[facthunter]

It's probably an amusement thing like the terrible Qantas one at Charleville. I hope it's not THAT bad and even lying prone and having the right controls is something. . I'd like to have a go at a replica some day. Most of those types need a light breeze only day.... Nev

[danny_galaga]

I think it was based on Microsoft Flight  Simulator 2004- A Centenary of Flight.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Flight_Simulator_2004:_A_Century_of_Flight

[danny_galaga]

 

 

 

[old man emu]

The 1903 Flyer was pretty simply a powered version of the glider design they had developed earleir. In operation it was closer to a hang glider  with the pilot prone using weight shift for lateral control, and the only other control was a lever for the elevator. Obviously this aircraft was a "proof of concept" and indicated the areas needed for change. By 1909, they had made improvements to make the aeroplane more of a typical transport vehicle, i.e. pilot and passenger sat up.

 

 

Note the two levers in the pilot's hands. The one on the left moves to and fro only, and works the elevator. That on the right can move either to and fro or sideways, that is to say, in reality it has a kind of universal motion. The two and fro movement works the rudder, and the sideways motion warps the main decks. 

 

So pitch and yaw are controlled then as we do now, but the rudder movement is in the wrong direction compared to turning a boat or wheeled vehicle. The need for a person used to steering other vehicles to re-learn the way to turn the aeroplane must have been one of the most difficult things about learning to fly a Wright aerplane. The confusion carries over a little to modern aircraft. Consider steering a billy cart with your feet. To go to the right, you push forward with your left leg. However, in an aeroplane, to go to the right you push forward with your right leg. (in very, very, very basic terms)

[danny_galaga]

You have to be careful with the term 'weight shift'. Shifting weight to control direction was exactly what the Wright's were getting away from, as they could see in the Lilienthal gliders it was a very marginal result (obviously much improved in modern hang gliders). They could see that a bird didn't use weight shifting for control. So in this case, you are shifting weight incidentally, just as you 'shift' your weight when you press your rudder peddle. If they had gone with an upright chair, the controls would have been exactly the same, but connected to a wheel instead of a yoke. They chose to lie prone to reduce drag.

Edited November 8, 2022 by danny_galaga

[rgmwa]

To add to OME's post re the 1909 model A:

 

Wilbur and Orville devised slightly different flight controls in the Model A airplanes they flew separately in France and the United States for their 1908 and 1909 public demonstrations. The Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum refers to "The Wilbur Method" and "The Orville Method". In Wilbur's method, the roll and yaw controls were combined on the same lever at the pilot's right hand. A forward-backward movement controlled the rudder, while a sideways or left-and-right motion controlled wing-warping. In the Orville Method, moving the stick controlled wing-warping, while a knob atop the stick controlled the rudder. In both methods the left-hand lever operated the forward elevator to control pitch. Wilbur trained French and Italian pilots using his method, and Orville trained German pilots while in Germany in 1909 for the Wright GmbH as well as American pilots at the Wright Company flight school using his method.

 

In the recent post that linked to the documentary on Thomas Sopwith, he described flying the plane using what was obviously the Orville method. The trick was to remember that forward on the right stick pushed the right wingtip down and pulling back raised it.

 

[danny_galaga]

In the end, Armstrong and Glenn didn't make much of a showing...