geoffreywh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I have on Sunday, what I hope is my last Nav ex.... My instructor, (bless Him) Wants me to fly (dual) into CTAF ® West Sale, So I have asked RAAF friends and Sunday the area is non-active. But what does he want me to discover? Always bearing in mind that he may read this forum? Can I fly across the area (staying under 1500 ft ) or must I follow the corridors? Do I have to request permission to enter or what? Is there something I am missing here....? any advice would be recognised as life saving.. Thanks, Geoffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 From a pilot that frequents West Sale (myself), you'll need to radio melbourne centre on 124.00 in that area and check if East Sale is active. eg. Melb Cent, Gazelle 1234, requesting status of East Sale Military Zone. response - East Sale not active, CTAF procedures apply. From there, barrel on in at any altitude whilst not following the corridors as they are for when the airspace is active. If you are RA registered and East Sale IS active, you can't legally go in there (without PPL etc), so the correct reaction for you as the student would be to turn around and find an alternate. Things to watch for West Sale are that all circuits on 09 / 27 are to the South of the runway and that the airspace extends nearly all the way to Warragul, so if you are planning up to and including 6,000ft you'll need to be careful that you check the status before you get to this airspace, same goes for Latrobe Valley and Yarram areas - very easy to penetrate it up high without checking the status first. I dare say I've done it myself without checking first. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihosland Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Geof does ask >>>> But what does he want me to discover? Always bearing in mind that he may read this forum?>>>> The role of the instructor is to instruct, advise and lead, while that of the student includes asking for clarification whenever the instruction is not sufficiently clear. One has to worry about the instructor/student relationship when this question is brought to this forum and not direct to the instructor. Otherwise brentc's answer holds for when East Sale is inactive. When Eas Sale is active as far as I am aware an raa pilot in an raa plane CAN fly the corridor to West Sale with clearance from the East Sale controller as can the same pilot fly the coastal corridor with a clearance. davidh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 just remember to smile and wave if an F111 plonks itelf besides you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Suggest you'd be better off checking NOTAM for East Sale as part of your pre-flight planning - no point getting to the edge of the boundary to find you can't go any further. I'd suggest your instructor is looking to see whether you are aware of and using all the resources available to you for your flight planning. Knowing as much as you can about your intended flight before you strap on the aeroplane is probably what he/she is looking for. While Brent's method will get the desired result, it's probably a bit late to find this out once you're in the air on your way to West Sale if that's your intended destination...it also adds workload to controllers who probably have better things to be doing than answering questions which could have been answered by more thorough preparation. Suggest you also don't "barrel on in at any altitude", an approach at the correct hemispherical altitude for the direction your heading would probably be a more appropriate approach. PS> Nothing against Brent's post, just an alternate method to achieve the same result. Cheers, Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Thanks everyone, It's clear that the instructor was looking for the correct preparation regarding the radio calls and needing permission when active. ....So thanks BRENTC ...Just confirming what I needed to know. We usually fly at 2500ft. or thereabouts depending on conditions and terrain so the 6500 ft reply does not apply (but thanks anyway). I was looking at the R.A.A. website and found only passing reference to CTAF ® procedures. I suppose I was being over cautious and not wanting to miss anything at all. I think that davidh missed the point entirely. The correct procedures for entering and negotiating CTAF ® areas are not obvious to the uninitiated. I think that the instructor looked for me doing a bit of my own research and coming up with the correct actions. .......................Geoffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Of course, my post was supplementary to good flight planning and hemispherical adherence thanks Matt. That being said though, the NOTAMS for East Sale will tell you that the airspace is subject to activation at any time and believe me, it sometimes does activate! I would consider it absolutely mandatory to check airspace in the air prior to entering the airspace as the status may have changed. I once landed my aerochute near East Sale and heard a call saying that it was about to become active. About 10 minutes later a 707 flew overhead my position when I was packing up, at about 500ft. Needless to say if I wasn't listening properly on the radio I could have been in a world of pain. David, I must politely disagree. RAA aircraft are not permitted to fly into Military Control Zones unless all prescibed conditions for CTA are met with (you posted on them only a couple of days ago). Whilst if you ask for a clearance you will receive one, you won't be legal with RA-Aus certificate. This came to a head recently when an East Sale RA-Aus operator was operating when the zone was active at West Sale. A student was sent solo and the school was promptly shut down by CASA. The ops manager attended to attempt to come up with a solution. I'm waiting to hear what happened exactly with the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Brent is absolutely right. The regs do not allow us to penetrate R airspace, regardless of whether a clearance has been issued or not. This applies to someone on an RAA pilot certificate and is one of the existing impediments to the introduction of the CTA endorsement. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Brent, What school recently got shut down at WSL?, I have been offshore for a week and a half and unless it is in this time frame the school as far as I know is still up and running and has been for over 3 years now using a raa registered jabiru. The CFI is a GA instructor and I guess also raa rated and as far as i know he trains when the base is active in the raa jab, so unless the fhit has hit the san in the last week i am at a loss to a school being closed at WSL Cheers Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Alf, this happened in May 1998 and it was sorted out soon after. Stand by for the new school that is coming though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Brent, Yes that was a long time ago. The new school will give a little competition up here no doubt which should make for some interesting times at WSL in the future' Cheers Alf:thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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