Guest watto Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yes it does but the student cannot be confined to the training area after he has his pilot cert, he then gets to do a 25nm raduis to get used to that slightly expanded area and then does cross country which opens up the rest of Australia, that seems to be a naturally flowing progression, what happens if you keep your dog on a chain in the back yard? the minute he gets a chance he does the bolt! gets 300metres down the road and gets lost! because he has not been able to naturally explore his environment at will and that is why the pilot certificate gives a radius of 25nm! to allow the pilot to go to locations within a safe distance and gain confidence and some basic directional skills can be tested without fear of getting lost. As stated, there is actually no need to gain cross country endorsement if you do not want it, but you can legally and safely be within the 25nm radius including your private strip or landing at other strips, you may wish to then be based from home and can legally use that as your basis for you 25nm radius. I am on sick leave atm so I can do some further compelling research if you wish but the out come will be the same, the answer to the original question is yes! and Brett has been deemed competent to hold a pilot certificate and can travel anywhere within that radius ( except controlled airspace and restricted or prohibitted area's of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I tend to like Watto's dog and chain scenario... very true! The 25nm radius for me is great! our house is 23nm from the airport, so I'm allowed to fly home, which is hugely exciting/fun! When I flew out home for the first time, I considered if I was to ever get lost, what would I first do? but fortunately for me, I'm flying where I grew up, so I tend to know just about every road and farm in the area, so it would be pretty hard to get lost if I stuck to the 25nm's...(or even more!)... I'm not trying to be brash or anything, but I think what we really should be considering is the weather! Remember, If you've come from a ground vehicle background, driving in the rain/fog, is no real problem... What would someone who has just got his PC and is flying around in the 25nm radius, and has landed at some other place, to take off and find he can't get back to home base and now the rain is starting to form all around... and yes, he should have stayed on the ground where he was and not try and get back...(buts let's assume this person is weather oblivious to a point!).... Because remember the MET stuff is interlocked with the NAV endorsement!? so he may not know about all that yet? Just something else to stir the fire!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying dog Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 You won't be a flying dog for long doing that. "ploise explain".... i_dunno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastmeg2 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Brett, You probably should have pulled Turbo up when he led you into theoretical Non-VMC conditions which only current IFR qualified and equipped pilots can venture into legally and with relative safety. Though my recollection being that recognition of approaching non-VMC conditions, once again is taught as part of the XC endorsement training. One doesn't have to be XC proficient to recognise deteriorating conditions, it seems the theoretical pilots lack of care and caution was the main contributing factor. A more experienced pilot could have been consulted. Cheers, Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 The theoretical pilot did NOT enter non VMC conditions. He correctly identified the unexpected weather change and departed the scene in the correct direction in order to stay VFR and this was a typical and correct reaction of a pilot who is exercising his skills as a newly graduated PC. However, that action sent him out to the east, and in bumpy conditions where it was hard to hold a map and concentrate, he had to start doing things he was not trained to do. He hadn't been timing his trip, because he wasn't trained to do so, he hadn't marked his map because he wasn't trained to do so, he hadn't been tracking his endurance, because he wasn't trained to do so, he hadn't calculated last light because he wasn't trained to do so, and even if he could find his location on the map, he couldn't fly a correct track because he hadn't been trained in things like Magnetic vs True North. What had seemed like a very straightforward flight had been changed by an unexpeced weather influence, and he had been pushed out to the east away from the landmarks and over scrub, where the towns were a lot further apart, and a safe conclusion of the flight relied on the ability to Navigate and Calculate as well as Aviate. When I put forward the risk associated with a weather change to Brett, I got this response: "And that's why I'll get the forecast before heading to Bunbury to decide if it's suitable to fly or not. There's no "predicting" in that what so ever." That's why I wrote the hypothetical case. I can recall an Incident Report in GA flying where an uneventful Cessna flight into Canberra almost became a disaster when ice built up on the wings just four minutes out from the destination. Distance has nothing to do with the issue, its all about unfamiliarity with a situation you haven't been trained for, or haven't yet experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watto Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Dead horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yes, I'm afraid it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relfy Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 The most disapointing part of this thread is that Brett asked a question which was coverd and then we've moved on to hypotheticals involving a pilot who fly totally blind and unaware of his/her surroundings (of which I don't know too many at all!), still with the inference that Brett may get lost and have his workmates go searching for him and his mum stuck on a deserted island somewhere off WA after being taken by the 50 year storm that pops up regardless of all BOM predicitions. It has really just zapped the fun out his whole experience. There are 'what ifs' in every part of our life but i personally have confidence in 99.99% of RAA certified pilots abilities to venure 25nm away from their port of call, Brett included. My CFI pushed me out of the nest and said go fly, and don't come back, don't go past 25nm and remember you always have your radio etc, and keep your back door open. Have a great flight Brett:thumb_up: and enjoy it, who knows your mum may even start training and start a thread or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Tough! These these things can and do happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watto Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Neeeeeeeeyyyyy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 FER CHIS SAKE !! If you have your license, and presumably took around 20 hrs to get it, you should know the area of the 25 nm radius anyway. We are supposed to be pilots here, not whinging girls. By the sound of it, some of you need a 25nm long pink ribbon tied one end to the windsock, and the other end to the aeroplane !!. If this attitude had been around in the early eighties, we wouldn't even have a sport now. :dog: :rilla: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brett Campany Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 And that as they say..... is that! Cheers for all of your responses guys, everyone here has bought up some valid points, I got the answer I needed and we dove into some of the things that could happen to anyone on any flight. It's all experience building, it's all a learning curve but really, I got quite a lot out of this thread from all involved! Many thanks to all! :thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorticity Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Brett, have a great flight. If you are flying the aircraft from your picture than you have 100kts yes? Thats roughly 20 minutes for 25nm?, if you cannot look outside the cockpit, see bad weather and get your self home than we are getting into human factors and poor decision making territory. This is what you are actually exercising and developing by using your 25nm area of operation. Your a new pilot so I'd say you will be paranoid about the weather, I know that I still am. 25nm is a fantastic little bubble to get out and learn heaps about being PIC and settling into the aircraft so that you get the most out of your navs. Unless your home strip is woomerra I cant see how you wouldnt have some prominant land marks to keep you on track. Get out and have fun, dont let the 'hypothetic VFR pilot' scare you out of it. Chances are you will rock up and there wont be any clouds for 200nm, thats if the weather gods are happy with you!:thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brett Campany Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Cheers Vorticity, I'm looking forward to it! Will get a few photos sorted out on the day and get them up on Tuesday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watto Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Good one Brett, look forward to seeing them, have fun!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleemanj Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 3. Pilots with xcountry can fly anywhere in Aust and NZ. (And with GA xcountry anywhere in the world.) Woah boy, hold up there. RAAUS pilots can fly in Australia. Not NZ. There's no specific or even defacto reciprocity to my knowledge. In either direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Woah boy, hold up there. RAAUS pilots can fly in Australia. Not NZ. There's no specific or even defacto reciprocity to my knowledge. In either direction. Correct - sort of ! I believe RAAus (or indeed any overseas) microlight pilots have to join the Kiwi organisation and either fly under the supervision of an instructor (not necessarily dual) OR pass the airlaw exam and be signed off by an instructor. Pretty much the same deal for a kiwi or other overseas pilot wanting to fly RAAus here. You certainly cant just rock up & legally fly but overseas training / experience is acknowledged. Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleemanj Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 join the Kiwi organisation and either fly under the supervision of an instructor (not necessarily dual) OR pass the airlaw exam and be signed off by an instructor That's probably about right, in the most general terms you need a valid NZ microlight pilot certificate issued by a Part 149 organisation. Depending on the organisation, hours can be credited, some of the exams may be credited, but you're going to need at least Law. That's about as specific as it gets really because we have several organisations which govern microlight pilots in NZ, each with different rules, requirements, and different pilot certification structures, all separately approved by the NZ CAA. Frankly, it's all a bit silly and confusing in my opinion, but that's a different topic. Hopefully we can see more cooperation and recognition between RAANZ (the main organisation here) and RAAus in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drizzt1978 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 In the RA aus magazine a few issues ago was the guy from oz....who went to wannaka and flew, i believe it was check flight, fee and paper work?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I can't recall whether the guy in the article flew solo ? I flew from Wanaka a few years ago but it was all dual - TBH I think I got a LOT more out of the experience that way. The cost was simply the dual training rate & I didn't have to do any paperwork or forms. Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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