Guest rocketdriver Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I'm an ex ( ) GA pilot with plenty of tailwheel, glider and even hanggliding experience ( ) together with just 50 hours on ultralights ..... and I'm thinking of getting back into it in an ultralight way. Can someone advise me regards approximate costs of ownership ..... I'm thinking of insurance, annual / 100 hourly maintenance, hangerage, engine overhaul costs ... and how long in between ... etc. etc. I know that some of these are "how long is a piece of string" type questions, but some rough ideas would be helpful. What I want to do is establish my prospective standing costs and my likely variable costs if I go ahead with something with two seats .... Thruster/bantam/Renegade??/Skyfox or whatever .... TIA :big_grin: Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Hi martin, it is a very difficult question to answer, as different A/C, have different engines, airframes etc. Maybe if you could narrow down the field of A/C to a couple of A/C you are interested in, then the owners of these aircraft, that you are interested in might be able to help you. The cost of renting a hangar space varys a great deal even from location to location. Kind regards daryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossie Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I'm an ex ( ) GA pilot with plenty of tailwheel, glider and even hanggliding experience( ) together with just 50 hours on ultralights ..... and I'm thinking of getting back into it in an ultralight way. Can someone advise me regards approximate costs of ownership ..... I'm thinking of insurance, annual / 100 hourly maintenance, hangerage, engine overhaul costs ... and how long in between ... etc. etc. I know that some of these are "how long is a piece of string" type questions, but some rough ideas would be helpful. What I want to do is establish my prospective standing costs and my likely variable costs if I go ahead with something with two seats .... Thruster/bantam/Renegade??/Skyfox or whatever .... TIA :big_grin: Martin With all that experience why not buy an RV kit and VH register it in experimental. Build more than 50% and you can do all your own maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Rocketdriver. You can do the sums purchase cost.... $20k - $30k for the types mentioned fuel and day to day costs run out at about $40/hr plus hangar costs $20 - $100 pw depending on where you are plus the biggies, eg. Engine, a few thousand every few years etc Basically, it is do-able on an ordinary income and not all that much more expensive than golf or skiing or scuba diving and a lot more rewarding, at least for me it is. Go out and do it. Do it now. Every day that you put it off is another day to regret when you finally do it. You obviously have the aviation affliction and we both know that there is no known cure, you just have to fly. Cheers, Qwerty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 What on earth is "Engine :- a few thousand every few years" all about? Average RAA pilot hours are somewhere around 50 hours per year.....It's going to take more than "a few years" to wear one out...There are many L2 maintanance people around that don't cost a million quid per hour..........Think about where you're going to hangar it....Are there ANY hangars available at ANY cost .(eighty bucks a week ,although a LOT of money, is not unusual!)!.If I could choose my aeroplane again I would get a wing folding type..and a trailer...G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 What on earth is "Engine :- a few thousand every few years" all about? Average RAA pilot hours are somewhere around 50 hours per year.....It's going to take more than "a few years" to wear one out...There are many L2 maintanance people around that don't cost a million quid per hour..........Think about where you're going to hangar it....Are there ANY hangars available at ANY cost .(eighty bucks a week ,although a LOT of money, is not unusual!)!.If I could choose my aeroplane again I would get a wing folding type..and a trailer...G Fly a 582 for your first 3 years and you will do more than 50rh/yr and you will probably burn up a few thousand dollars worth of time on it.....Reasonable??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 I'm thinking of getting back into it in an ultralight way. Can someone advise me regards approximate costs of ownership . I know that some of these are "how long is a piece of string" type questions.... TIA :big_grin: Martin Hi rocketdriver, Sorry but you`re absolutely correct about the piece of string example. There are so many variables that I reckon no one will be even close to the correct answer. You will only get close to the required costs once you know exactly what it is that you want, and even then, there`s always what I call, "The Unknown Factor". Cheers, Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 a few thousand every few years" all about? Average RAA pilot hours are somewhere around 50 hours per year..... In my opinion the average RAA pilot probably does more flying a yr than an average GA pilot due to smaller costs. I'd be thinking it would be more than 50 hrs also.... I myself have done that in about 8 months, and I don't even own an aircraft, if I owned an aircraft I think I'd be doing quite a lot of flying a week... (save driving for one) and an after work relaxant! Then I guess those who can land and fly from our own property do a lot more than average pilots also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 According to BTRE, the total ultralight hours flown in 2007 was 138,300. RAAus had 7800 members at the end of that year. So even allowing for students & non-flying members, the average must be significantly less than 50 hours / year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 WHATEVER...... the guy wanted to know how much it will cost him to fly. I think that I made a reasonable stab at giving him an idea of about what he will be up for. He aint going to fly for $3,000 per year but it also doesnt have to cost $100,000 to get into it. He gave a clue with his prefered a/c list and I think that the sort of numbers that I gave are in the ball park are they not:dog:??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 He aint going to fly for $3,000 per year but it also doesnt have to cost $100,000 to get into it. He gave a clue with his prefered a/c list and I think that the sort of numbers that I gave are in the ball park are they not:dog:??????? Yeah - I'd say somewhere between $3K and $100K pa is a pretty fair estimate Qwerty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Geez, as a current student with aspirations to owning my own one day, I'm also interested in the answers to this one. So far only Qwerty has actually answered the question instead of fluffing around trying to define the parameters:off topic:, surely the aircraft examples quoted will allow a ballpark figure to be arrived at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKW Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 https://www.recreationalflying.com/xf2/uploads/emoticons/006_laugh.gif.0f7b82c13a0ec29502c5fb56c616f069.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 You just have to rub it in Tomo! Mmm yeah...! A pretty big privilege really when you think about it hey?!:thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 surely the aircraft examples quoted will allow a ballpark figure to be arrived at? Ok lets look at just one factor - are you hoping to insure it ? If so, that could feasibly add $40 to the cost of each flying hour just by itself. Not that you would be able to get insurance cover on most of the types mentioned anyway. Basically, it is do-able on an ordinary income and not all that much more expensive than golf or skiing or scuba diving and a lot more rewarding, at least for me it is. Go out and do it. Do it now. Every day that you put it off is another day to regret when you finally do it. You obviously have the aviation affliction and we both know that there is no known cure, you just have to fly. Never mind the figures - this is the best advice :-) John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest check-in Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Insurance (if you must) about $1500 a year. As mentioned, hangarage anything from 20 bucks a week (like mine because I 'own' the lease) to $100 for something at a flash airport. Oil , plugs and filters at 25 to 50 hours depending on whether I fly a lot of hours in a short time (sometimes) or less over a longer period (sometimes). But in any case twice a year minimum whether I do 50 hours or 100. About the same as a DIY service on a car, say $75-ish per service. Fuel is fuel, so litres per hour times dollars per litre is an easy calculation. But there are some unknowns. In the first 12 months of ownership my VHF radio fried its little brain and I had to do a part-exchange. The exhaust muffler cracked one time too many to be successfully re-welded, so I was up for a new one. Wooden prop picked up some piano wire, so even though insured there was still the excess to pay to get a nice new one. QWERTY mentioned a few thousand every few years on the engine, and I think that it would be prudent to expect this. RA (or GA) engines most emphatically do NOT last forever at 50-100 hours annual usage. Hoses need replacing, there is always one recalcitrant cylinder that will lose compression over time, the odd valve punches a hole in something, if you have a gearbox it will probably make an expensive noise sometime etc etc. Maybe not all of the above, but expect at least one such event. It's hard to rack up more than 100 hours a year, though a few do. Spread across 50 hours it looks bad, across 100, not so bad, across 200 it looks great, but - as the saying goes - " if it floats, flies or f...s, it's cheaper to rent it". Like a boat, an aeroplane's joy is in the ownership. If I had to hire, I would never fly - even if it was only 30 bucks an hour - because I would get no satisfaction from it. Also, for every hour flying I spend one or two more hours tinkering and that is good for the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rocketdriver Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Definately the numbers are helpful, and thank you for all your inputs ... but no one has mentioned the cost of insurance.... 3rd party and passenger is what I was thinking off ... does anyone do this? Also I agree about hours. I had a syndicate Cherokee 140 years ago and it was bloody hard work doing 100 hours a year even with only two others in the syndicate. Typically the a/c was available most evenings and one weekend out of two on average .... and after a while I ran out of things to do, places to see ...... When I was glider towing I used to get about 6 hours on a weekend once a month .... very tiring on a hot day and about 80+ hours per year .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rocketdriver Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Ahgh whoops... hadn't seen this one ... .sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I had a syndicate Cherokee 140 years ago I've got to give you a clap! you must be the oldest pilot around.... couldn't help it! :black_eye: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Geez, as a current student with aspirations to owning my own one day, I'm also interested in the answers to this one. So far only Qwerty has actually answered the question instead of fluffing around trying to define the parameters:off topic:, surely the aircraft examples quoted will allow a ballpark figure to be arrived at? Their are IMO to many variables to give a ball park figure. A bantam, and thruster will probably be similiar airframe wise, as engines are the same, 582, although some bantams have jabby 2.2. The skyfox is a wonderful a/c, but the wings have a hour life on them. Renegade , nice plane, still maintence wise, i dont know. Best thing to do is try and get a copy of the maintence manual (for major airframe inpections etc. and any A/Ds current for the particular type. You are looking at ?. As the other guys have already mentioned, insurance, fuel, etc are fixed cost items you can cost into a hourly rate. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 So even allowing for students & non-flying members, the average must be significantly less than 50 hours / year. Crezzi, That would be fairly close. Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rocketdriver Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I've got to give you a clap! you must be the oldest pilot around.... couldn't help it! :black_eye: good comment ... LOL ..... that will teach me to rush a reply whilst at work ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Baphomet Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 My two cents worth. I made this decision about 3 years ago, and elected to buy a Bantam. I pay $15.00 pw to hanger it, and it's direct cost is about $30.00 ph thus far to fly it. I replaced the fabric recently, even including this amount, I am still much better off financially than if I had continued to fly the schools Drifter at an hourly rate (the more I fly the better off I am). Other benifits are: 1. It is available when I want to fly it. 2. I don't have to worry about other people bending it. 3. I am able to fly much more regularly than I would be able to if I had to hire, and am probably a safer pilot because of it. The major disadvantage is the risk of an uninsured asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 The major disadvantage is the risk of an uninsured asset. Yes that is the only downside to two stroke aircraft... insurance company's don't seem to be interested in insuring them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yes that is the only downside to two stroke aircraft... insurance company's don't seem to be interested in insuring them. Is it two stroke aircraft or more particularly certain classes of rego the insurance companies don't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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