Above 5000ft

[tangocharlie123]

Ok so we are supposed to be getting the right to fly upto 10000 feet. (oh Christmas is Coming)

 

All aircraft, including ultralights, operating above 5000 feet amsl, must be equipped with a serviceable VHF radio; and the pilot, with an appropriate radio endorsement, must make the broadcasts specified in AIP Book.

 

Does anyone know where to find this in the AIP.

 

or what are the required calls.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Tomo]

Does anyone know where to find this in the AIP.

The AIP is here... but I would like to hear the answer for the radio calls also.

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Folks,

 

Look elsewhere on the forum for details for the new rules for the carriage and use of radio. Mid year the whole game changes.

 

Could I strongly recommend you buy (at least) a one off copy of the AIP, there is lots of useful (mandatory) information, no aircraft is exempt from the basic rules of the air. Also ERSA, which everybody will now need, including a subscription for amendments.

 

Regards,

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

There is really no mystery.....monitor the appropriate area frequency and, if you hear something you reckon could be important...make a call...the usual things apply...say how you are, where u are (geographical and altitude) and your'e intentions.

As CFI said, most radio calls follow basically the same format.

People need/want to know:

 

-Who you are.

 

-Where you are.

 

-Where you are going.

 

-And how you intend to get there.

 

Follow this simple format and you can't go wrong!:thumb_up:

 

Radio calls do not mysteriously change above 5000 feet, they are the same as below 5000 feet dependant upon the class of airspace!

 

 

[Tomo]

I know a guy who likes people making an area broadcast when climbing past 5000ft and then again when dropping down. All on Area Frequency - I think that it is quite unnecessary myself... if we all did that, I'm sure Brisy/Melb center will start getting rather annoyed!

 

What do you think about that? Or is that what you supposed to do?

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

There is no requirement for a call passing 5000 feet!

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

RAAus aircraft - I have seen a number of trip reports on the forum where RAAus registered planes were cruising above 5,000 ft amsl (eg 8,500). My understanding of the following (taken from the RAAus website) is that above 5,000 is only for crossing the range or real tiger country - not simply for travelling above the bumps and getting better fuel economy. There are a good number of RAAus aircraft that are suited to above 5,000 operations and this is why there is some celebration in the ranks about the mooted lifting of the restriction.

 

QUOTE

 

# RA-Aus aircraft operations should be confined to airspace below 5000 feet amsl. CAO 95.55 paragraph 5.1 (a) states that "the aeroplane may be flown 5 000 feet above mean sea level or higher:

 

"(i) only if it is flying over an area of land, or water, the condition, and location, of which is such that, during the flight, the aeroplane would be unable to land with a reasonable expectation of avoiding injury to persons on board the aeroplane; and (ii) only if it is equipped with a radiocommunication system"

 

CAO 95.10 and CAO 95.32 contain the same wording.

 

 

 

# All aircraft, including ultralights, operating above 5000 feet amsl, must be equipped with a serviceable VHF radio; and the pilot, with an appropriate radio endorsement, must make the broadcasts specified in AIP Book.

 

The upper limit for unpressurised GA registered aircraft is 10,000ft.

 

Feel free to correct me or add some wisdom.

 

Sue

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Radio procedures in AIP

 

• Go to Tomo's link (to Airservices AIP on line)
   
   
  
• select Enroute
   
   
  
• Scroll down the Table of Contents to 21.Radio Communications ..
   
   
  
• Click on this - it takes you to the body of the AIP
   
   
  
• Make a cuppa and settle back for a big read.
   
   
  
• Summarise it and post it here for all the time poor aviators..
   
   
  

 

 

 

Regards

 

Sue

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I asked the question to my CFI a while back, prior to crossing water at greater than 5000ft. Her response was: you have a mode-c transponder, approach knows you are there, no need for a call.

 

Now what to do if you don't have a transponder? In relatively busy routes (you know it when you hear it) it might make sense to state your altitude and intentions so they can route IFR traffic around you more easily.

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

If you are above 5000ft and flying hemispherical levels, there should be very little chance of traffic conflict

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Yeah, routing isn't the right word. ATC does call out possibly conflicting VRF traffic to IFR aircraft: "VFR traffic 3 miles in your 2 o'clock 6500 unverified."

 

 

[Foto_Flyer]

OK, just read through the AIP on radio calls and can concur with...

 

As CFI said, most radio calls follow basically the same format.People need/want to know:

 

-Who you are.

 

-Where you are.

 

-Where you are going.

 

-And how you intend to get there.

 

Follow this simple format and you can't go wrong!:thumb_up:

 

Radio calls do not mysteriously change above 5000 feet, they are the same as below 5000 feet dependant upon the class of airspace!

The following are the only extra bits of relevance to RA pilots.

 

21.1.9 Aircraft may maintain a listening watch on other than the Area VHF for operations below 5,000FT in Class G airspace such as para‐ chuting, gliding, agricultural operations and circuit training or local flights at non‐controlled aerodromes.

 

 

 

21.1.12 The standard broadcast format is;

 

a. {Location} Traffic

 

b. {Aircraft type}

 

c. {Callsign}

 

d. {Position/intentions}

 

e. {Location}

 

 

 

21.2.2 A non‐radio aircraft operating in Class G airspace may, due to stress of weather, operate above 5,000FT to the minimum extent necessary for the safe conduct of the flight, provided:

 

a. the aircraft cruises at a VFR level;

 

b. the cruise is conducted in VMC; and

 

c. as soon as is practicable, the aircraft descends in VMC to

 

below 5,000FT to continue flight in VMC.

 

A pilot not able to comply with these requirements must proceed to the nearest suitable aerodrome and land.

 

 

 

21.2.3 A no‐radio aircraft, other than a glider, may operate above 5,000FT within the confines of a published Danger area which is:

 

a. promulgated specifically for no‐radio operations, or

 

b. identified as permitting no‐radio operations.

 

Apart from that, if you are going to fly above 5000 ft, once that general allowance has come into affect, you must have a VHF radio in the aircraft and be licensed/certified to use it. And you must maintain a listening watch on the appropriate frequencies as listed in ERSA and/or charts such as VTC, ERC-L, etc.

 

Of course, for a lot of us operating from existing CTAF's, that is probably already the case or will be after June 3rd.

 

Well, at least, this is the way I interpret it anyway!

 

 

[jetjr]

If you are above 5000ft and flying hemispherical levels, there should be very little chance of traffic conflict

I think this is a misconception people have,

 

When flying North-South tracks, you can very easily conflict with aircraft travelling up to 179 deg to you, ie maybe 5 deg from head on and at same level

 

@ 200kts+ closing speed it happens really quickly and they are very hard to see too

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

With GPS it is very easy to be at the same place at the same time, especially when climbing or descending...:ah_oh:

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

I think this is a misconception people have, When flying North-South tracks, you can very easily conflict with aircraft travelling up to 179 deg to you, ie maybe 5 deg from head on and at same level

@ 200kts+ closing speed it happens really quickly and they are very hard to see too

Agreed, I meant more with IFR vs VFR

 

 

[Tomo]

The 5000ft limit is humorous at the best of times... think about it.

 

VFR cruising levels - heading east, odd numbers + 500ft, so you 'have' to do 5500ft (breaking the 5k limit rules right there). Unless of course you want to go at 3500ft, but that is just not practical in most places.

 

So if we can break the rules just a little bit, what's saying we can't break them a lot? (not saying I'd go around breaking rules just for the heck of it) But seriously, it just isn't logical.

 

Now we can go pass 5000ft to go over tiger country or high terrain. If we are allowed into this sacred area then, what's the difference over other areas? It'd be more dangerous climbing descending through everyone else on cruise, than blending in with it. ??

 

Sorry I'm off topic a bit. Fortunately, CASA have noticed the hilarity of this rule, and are working on lifting it - hopefully!

 

Once upon a time we couldn't go above 500ft, now we can't go under it, unless licensed to do so.............

 

Ps. I'm afraid I break the height rule quite a lot, having a range nearby.

 

 

[jetjr]

"I have often flown above 5000' & to date have never been challenged by either Centre".

 

You wont get challenged as it is YOU who are restricted not the Aircraft and centre have no way of knowing if you are PPL or RA.

 

Another interesting track is Griffith to Toc or Shep - 179 i think and that puts you inline with traffic headed north east from central Vic

 

 

[robinsm]

I believe one of the current prerequisites if you have to fly above 5000 ft for any reason is you must have a vhf radio on board. I have flown above 5000' regularly but thewn in this area we have 3000 plus ft lumpy bits and when flying over tiger country at that level you need 2000ft plus under you to glide clear if the fan stops. When I flew to armidale recently, the airfield is 3600 ft amsl so 1500 ft agl puts you over 5000' any way.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Maynard

 

 

[Bruce Robbins]

"I have often flown above 5000' & to date have never been challenged by either Centre".

 

"You wont get challenged as it is YOU who are restricted not the Aircraft and centre have no way of knowing if you are PPL or RA."

 

Not right. According to the regs, the aircraft is restricted, not the pilot.

 

Bruce

 

 

[jetjr]

Hmm OK, I thought a PPL in RA AC was OK over 5000ft? They can fly it into controlled airspace (with txr).

 

I guess you wont get challenged as they have no idea if you think you will sustain injury if you had to land quickly.

 

Also I guess they wont know if you are VH or RA regd? Not likely to question every aircraft they see over 5000.

 

 

[Bruce Robbins]

Jetr and David,

 

I used to believe the same as you. "If I operate an RAA registered aircraft on my PPL I can go above 5000 feet."

 

Unfortunately the regulations disagree.

 

CAO 95.55 paragraph 5.1 (a) states that

 

"the aeroplane may be flown 5 000 feet above mean sea level or higher:

 

(i) only if it is flying over an area of land, or water, the condition, and location, of which is such that, during the flight, the aeroplane would be unable to land with a reasonable expectation of avoiding injury to persons on board the aeroplane;

 

and

 

(ii) only if it is equipped with a radiocommunication system"

 

 

[ahlocks]

Love your work Bruce! :thumb_up:

 

 

[Tomo]

Interesting hey, I could go and jump in the hang glider, or 'a' glider and go to FL10, but flying a sophisticated aircraft you're stuck to 5000ft. When I get my PPL I can fly the Jab into CTA area's (transponder) but not above 5000ft?? (legally)

 

 

[Al B]

Then again, Gliders are flown by pilots who have a PPL, and are more closely controlled by CASA.

Not at all. Glider pilots operate on a certificate system. From the GFA's website:

 

There are various proficiency certificates and badges which a glider pilot can claim.

 

"A" Certificate: Five solo flights, and a brief theory exam.

 

"B" Certificate: Fifteen solo flights, including one of at least thirty minutes soaring above the launch release height.

 

"C" Certificate: Twenty solo flights, including two soaring flights each of one hour duration, plus a landing away from the airfield of departure. A check for entry into and recovery from a fully developed spin.

 

Other proficiency certificates include the "Silver", the "Gold", "Diamond", and distance diplomas. Details are available from club certificates officers, or the FAI Certificates Officer.

 

Certain operational requirements have been made dependent on the issue of the "C" certificate.

 

These state that gliders may not be flown by a person not possessing a "C" certificate unless under the supervision of a GFA approved instructor. Gliders may not be flown cross-country by a pilot not possessing a "C" certificate, unless on a task for an initial "C" certificate.

If you want to see the exams that must be passed, please take a look here: http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/ops/abc_certificates.pdf

 

Glider pilots can go above 5000 feet and enter controlled airspace! It's entirely possible to train for controlled airspace, jump in a motorglider and transit class C. The same pilot could not jump into a Jabiru and make the same trip.

 

 

[Exadios]

Interesting hey, I could go and jump in the hang glider, or 'a' glider and go to FL10, but flying a sophisticated aircraft you're stuck to 5000ft. When I get my PPL I can fly the Jab into CTA area's (transponder) but not above 5000ft?? (legally)

I do not know the rules for hang gliders but I image they are the same as for gliders - which means that they can fly up to FL20 without clearance in most of Australia's sir space.