BrendAn

The point I made in another post was what if they turn out to be every bit as reliable and long lasting as a 912. Then it would worth the 5 or 10k saving.

18 minutes ago, RFguy said:

In my direct dealing with the mfr , it's about 2/3 the price and I explained to them people if they were goign to spend 20,000, then they'd spend 30,000 and just buy the real thing. so them they offered another 20% off.

 

BrendAn. 12k US or aussiue ? 12k USD sounds right.

Must have been USD. Although that was a while I go and I haven't heard that he actually went ahead with them.

8 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

I enquired direct to Zongshen about them when they first appeared about 2 or 3 years ago..they wanted you to buy 4 engines to be a dealer and at the time they would have been about 28k aussie..the rotax was 32k aussie

 

no one would buy them.  the bloke i heard about reckoned he was getting a container load for 12k each but he might have talking crap too.

22 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

26k US$ is about 38K aussie.....the rotax here is about the same price now

 

do you seriously think they would ask the same price as rotax.  they only cost about 12k au landed here from what i have heard. 38 would be a good markup.

if they do ask rotax price they will never sell an engine .

2 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

The USA and Canada agent has pricing on the website and its only a couple of thousand less in the USA than a genuine rotax

 

matt did mention the price he paid in one of the videos and it was a lot less. but like i said, maybe he got an extra good deal.

2 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

They are not that much cheaper than a rotax though....if they were 10k cheaper then ok but they are only about 5k cheaper

i think that bloke in canada got his for half the price of a 912, may have got a real good deal too, for advertising. 

even so ,if they prove to be as good as a rotax i would buy one if it left 5000 in my pocket. only time will tell.

12 hours ago, jackc said:

Part 149 is involved, too? 

how could it not be.

18 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

One of them thumbed his nose like that just before the last CASA audit of RA aircraft which took out a lot of non compliant RA aircraft pretty much overnight. It was surprising how they knew just where to look for the illegal planes.

there are plenty in rural areas.   a friend of the family had 3 cessnas over the years. did a lap of aus. flew everywhere. never questioned or had a ramp check in his life. never had a rpl either, i don't think he even had lessons.

the issue would have been if he had an accident with passengers.

21 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

How much will CASA . EXPECT ?

IT WOULDN'T BE CHEAP

by any one's expectations. 

No licene/certificate,

No registration/third party Insurance .

Throw the book at him, will be the cry ! .

spacesailor

there are probably nearly as many rec pilots flying unlicensed as there are licensed.  no one evers checks unless something goes wrong. lots of pilots out there that haven't done bfrs for years.

3 hours ago, spacesailor said:

I wouldn't Dare in Sydney. 

Must be just , a little slack in Gippsland Victoria. 

Here you're busted for 0.05. seconds  $ 500 .

spacesailor

 

who fines you 500 for flying without a license

2 hours ago, spacesailor said:

I wouldn't Dare in Sydney. 

Must be just , a little slack in Gippsland Victoria. 

Here you're busted for 0.05. seconds  $ 500 .

spacesailor

 

they would never catch me. i can outrun them at 60 knots 🤣

17 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

 

 

 

"...........what fuel 912s use or don't use..." Well there you go, that explains why you don't quite follow my concern about RAA's lack of foresight/ planning for the Parkes event.

"...........Latrobe" - that's somewhere in Mexico - right? Explains everything 😈

"...fuel companys would be reluctant to send mogas out to an airfield.  leaves them liable if contaminants cause an engine failure."

Mate - it was your (possibly unintended) suggestion of heightened risk in using ULP

"Grumpy" - Yep! got to that age - no intention to offend/ hope none taken🙃

 

all good . nothing wrong with robust arguments😁

easier to just go and fly , f###k the license. no one ever asks anyway.

1 minute ago, spacesailor said:

I didn't say $ 300.

Spacesailor

i fixed it . left a 0 off.

16 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

I quite often don't have the time to look at long videos, but I watched the whole thing. Really nice to see those sorts of videos. I enjoyed every minute 🙂

if that engine keeps going the way it is it will be a good alternative to rotax prices.

2 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I can beat that excessive price .

When ( so long ago ) we flew somewhere in

Badgerys Creek . I enquired as-to the flight training on their " autogyro " . Big shock at the reply .

$3,000 .

That was the same as ' helicopter ' training .

crazy.

spacesailor

3000 is for the whole course though.

On 07/04/2024 at 8:40 PM, djpacro said:

You spoke to them, not me. I guess that he simply answered the question that you asked.

well i rang them again today. the jabiru at moorabbin with instructor is $490 per hour. i asked him twice to make sure. that is  a lot of money. the gazelle is off line.

3 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Maaaaate!: 

 

Fact - Rotax 9's are designed to run on unleaded petrol (ULP) minimum 95 RON.

Fact- Rotax 9's can run on leaded (AvGas) but in doing so it is recommended that the service (oil changes) intervals be halved and that the gearbox be removed for inspection/cleaning, at,I think, 600 hrs which is also half the interval for an engine run predominantly on ULP.-significant additional cost in fuel & service

Fact - Rotax 9s do not perform any better using AvGas, than ULP - possible exception for high altitude performance (not usually an issue in Australia)

Fact- In using AvGas you are unnecessarily adding  a lead pollutant to the environment - why do it if you don't have to?

Fact- This topic, Rotax 9's / use of ULP/Avgas, has been absolutely done to death.

 

All the hysteria (including the legal liability mumbo jumbo) about lower quality control standards for ULP compared with AvGas has been debunked - assuming  basic precautions are taken ie:

• Purchase ULP from a high turnover retailer (preferably a well known/established brand)
• Filtering fuel in to your aircraft tanks ie a use a filter funnel (best if it has a water separating function as well)
• Do your pre flight fuel sampling, to check for contaminants - keep sampling until no contamination in sample 
• Inspect/service your aircrafts in line fuel filters/water traps at regular interval
• Store ULP in sealed containers 75% + full - good for at least 6 months
• Add fresh fuel to fuel tanks, before flight (not after)
• If flying infrequently (my guess less than once a month) drain all fuel from the aircraft between flights

Speculation:  I think there is a strong case for businesses, using ULP,  for "off road" use ie powerig aircraft, to claim rebate on road tax portion of the ULP fuel cost - further reducing running costs.

 

As for aircraft fueling services - the reality is that in most instances/airfields the demand would be miniscule, compared with AvGas/JetA ie it would not be a paying proposition. They run a business, not a charity, it must pay its way.

I contacted the Parkes fueling service as a courtesy/completeness of investigating the supply of ULP at the coming event, not because I really expected them to supply/ provide this service.

I am still of the opinion that RAA (the event organiser) have failed to support their members in this matter.

2 answers for you.

no 1: i don't give a flying fire truck what fuel 912s use or don't use. i simply pointed out the latrobe aero club 912s were on avgas until recently.

no 2: i don't care what you do or don't do with your fuel. i just said look at it from the fuel distributors point of view.

and i thought i was grumpy. 

2 hours ago, Area-51 said:

This is all wrong. There would have to be a large percentage of do bad terrorists out there that want to enjoy the added experience of building their own drone the way they think a drone should be built; opening the box for the first time; laying out all the bits across the lounge room floor; running off to bunnings or aldi aerospace to purchase missing pieces; arguing with the wife that it always looks the same pile of metal each time she looks at it week after week year after year; packing up and moving the entire build to new premises because landlord sold the property; cease and desist letters from council about industrial noise at 2am; cutting out side of the house to push finished drone out into front yard for engine testing; waiting eight and a half years for lockdowns to finish before flying drone mission into building only to realise target has retired from office to tropical tax haven island two days before end of lockdown... Gotta be high percentage out there of ones that enjoy the journey!! 🤷🏼‍♂️

Hilarious, you need to tie this post into the never ending story😂

6 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

"leaves them liable if contaminants cause an engine failure. "

 

What!!!!

 

This is hysterical/ill informed BS that serves no one well.

 

I have been using ULP in my Rotax 912 ULS for about 15 years - have yet to have a problem.

I use a filter funnel for all fuel in to my tanks and have a gascolator/filter before the engine..

Previse aircraft, used in line, transparent case, disposable filters - rarely had any  contamination on filter gauze.

Rotax recommended a minimum of 95 RON, I use 98 RON, just in case it has been adulterated with lesser grade - never had a problem.

In my short time associated with RAA, I have yet to hear of an incident due to contaminated ULP .

Just saying,  lots of places are reluctant to be involved as soon as you mention aircraft. You think you are the only person that runs on mogas. When you go and buy your jerry cans the servo don't care what U do with it.  You are asking a fuel company with no history of selling mogas for use in aircraft to send a truck out and fuel multiple aircraft ,of course they will 

Look at the legal implications.pretty stupid to think they won't. 

Our airfield has a new bowser setup with mogas and they have switched the two trainers, both 912 uls powered to it.  Those 2 have been on avgas their whole lives and never have any issues. 

You would be better served to contact Wade mahlo at orange airport and see if he can help. He owns Wade air aircraft refuelling.

2 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Have contacted the fuel company that will be servicing the Fly-In.

 

Person I spoke to, didn't know that many small aircraft use ULP and has no plans to make it available for the event.

bugger. i think fuel companys would be reluctant to send mogas out to an airfield.  leaves them liable if contaminants cause an engine failure.  

13 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I think we have less and less people who are interested in detail. We used to have people here who  designed and built Planes and would talk to us. Now "where the fugarethey"  Hands up those who built model planes. Where have we come from and are going to? Trouble is we are in the air and share it and it that's not well done everything else is of no consequence. You will most likely have a big scare and decide to do something else.  Probably weather elated because there's a lot of that to spread around.. Then it gets BACK to why am I spending all this dough when it's NOT really THAT much fun.. IF none of this is relevant to your circumstances FINE and Bully for You. (remember that one.? If you do you're probably. too old to be flying. . Climbing mountains  skiing robbing banks  selling your body etc And there you have it.

Nev

good points. i have built and flown rc models but wouldn't trust myself to build a fullsize .   i have tried selling my body at a heavily discounted rate but no takers😁.   

14 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Thanks Blue,

I am aware of Decalin - very popular in the USA.

I am on my second Rotax 912 ULS -  except for the 1-2 times/15 years, I topped up (shandy) with AvGas, I don't use it. There is no discernible improvement in performance (I am told there may be a high altitude benefit, but I don't fly above 10,000ft ). There is a significant cost/L penalty and if used regularly, additional service cost due to lead build up.  I don't plan on using AvGas any time soon. Decalin treats a problem, that I would rather avoid in first instance.

For pilots who don't fly regularilly, AvGas is much slower to "go stale" than ULP (especially 98 RON). I haven't been in this situation but would suggest draining tanks & carburettor bowl, rather than using AvGas.

Thanks anyhow for the thought

 

absolutely no need to be draining tanks and carbys with avgas, definitely with mogas though.

7 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

Maybe phone floods for info, have heard of mixing decalin (very small ratio) so the lead does not build up for Rotax 582 engines.  Best check it further.  The 4 strokes are ok according to Rotax under 30% usage.  A mate who does oil analysis tells me it takes 2 oil changes to get the lead reading zero in the samples.

mine is a jab2200. been on avgas since new in 2004

4 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Rotaxs's don't like 100 LL  They run the heads too cool for the lead to flow but I reckon ONE part tank full won't  damage it. Incidentally, Lead doesn't help GUIDES unless it was a real old thing that runs really hot made last in the 20's.  Nev

i never knew that. i only use it so i don't have fuel going stale and it has been run on it since new .

i was talking to a bloke with an avro biplane , he said it doesn't like avgas because the lead builds up in the bottom cylinders.