nomadpete

Well, Desky, Howie will make anybody just about any 'derivative' that you can think up. For instance, tricycle GR-912 could also be called a derivative of a GR-912. Or you could call it a Lightwing with a training wheel.

Anyway, I'm after design info on the main spar and wing tank mounting. That is specific to the GA_912 derivative.

PeterT

An action against an individual Board Member would have to be taken in the ACT Civil & Administrative Tribunal (ACAT). The outcome could be for that individual to be disqualified from being a member of the Management Committee (Board) for a period set down by the ACAT. Yes, the Tribunal hears administrative (process) matters.

 

I can't imagine a financial penalty being imposed but the Act does provide for a fine of up to something like $2,000 for an offence against, for example section 73 of the Act. But, the penalties are there for a reason - to deter people from committing the offences.

 

Offences are criminal matters. They are prosecuted by the DPP or police and are heard by a court.

 

An action in negligence mounted against a committee member may have a very different outcome in that "employers" are generally vicariously liable for the negligent actions of an employee and a similar relationship may be held to exist between committee member and association.

 

The Registrar-General of the Office of Regulatory Services could, if he/she chooses to, initiate such an action if the Committee (Board) Member has committed an offence against the Associations Incorporation Act, 1991.

 

The Registrar-General could but seems not to be listening. He also seems to have communication problems because he hasn't responded to my latest letter as yet.

 

If a Board Members is "convicted" of an offence against the Act and fined, RAA and its insurers are prohibited from paying the fine for the Board Member. I seriously doubt that they could even justify paying for a legal defence. If the matter was defended and lost then the Board Member might find himself in the position of having to reimburse RAA for the cost of the defence. The point is, do not break the law!!!

 

If a committee member is charged with an offence, it is for the committee member to defend it. If found not guilty, he may have a claim for costs against the state but no claim would lie against the Association.

 

My bet is that many of these blokes haven't read the act and just don't know that they have committed an offence.

 

Mine too.

 

That Bush Lawyer

Thanks for your contributions to this forum. Balanced, informative and clear. If ever I get into trouble, I'd be content to have the services of a 'bush lawyer' like you any day. Unfortunately your information only adds to my concern for our collective future.

Anyway, February will hopefully clarify a lot of things for us, and hopefully resolve some too.

Have a great festive season in spite of all that.

PT

OOPS .....

P4D - I was rather hoping that someone would say "Hey, thats a great idea - I'll set one up right away!" So far it is a pretty short list.

Deskpilot - The GA-912 has same fuse and engine as GR-912, but smaller wings, and half as many lift struts.

PeterT

Hi,

I am working on my GA-912 and need some information from the original plans. I found a little discrepency that I would like a definitive answer to. Howie was unable to help. Does anybody have a set of the plans? Were any GA's built from kits?

If you have a GA-912 would you like to be in touch with other GA-912 owners? We could perhaps make a private contact list so that we can share GA specific information.

Peter T

I feel that one of the big causes of member apathy is the disconnect of communications between exec/board and the members. Yes, we ALL just want to go flying. But we don't question that there are numerous political things that we have to spend time on before we fly - stuff like paperwork. I would extend that (individual's) requirement to include our responsibility to ensure that the background running of our organisation is being administered with integrity and efficiency. So it follows that we can't just go flying without taking an interest in the politics. Which brings me back to where I started - please put in place a simple modern way to be informed.

As an aside, in business as in Associations, it is the job of the management to empower, educate, and put in place the processes that are essential tools required for the rank and file to make the management look good.

Peter T

Well, I guess that 26 prospective remote attendees would not warrant the expense. I was hoping for a lot more, especially considering that the results would have been skewed toward internet users because they would logically be the sort of folk already reading these forums.

However, I still believe that these avenues of communication would bring about more active involvement by the members. It is just not good enough to have to wait for the magazine to publish some sanitised report (if anything at all) on what is going on.

Peter

Yes, OK, there are more options than I listed. I just wanted to get a feeling for whether people are really wanting easier communication in this way. I, for one, have never been able to attend a AGM because of work commitments and the distance/ time/ motel accommodation costs . So I became one of the great unwashed apathetic ones, unable to vote properly because of a disconnect in the communications. Information is power and the informed are therefore empowered. If I had been able to hear how the meetings were chaired, I would have had a better idea of the way things were going, and how the personalities were interacting at the meeting. In the past I have used web for lectures and for meetings at work. It is not going to be as good as being present at a meeting but is sure does tell you a lot about how the business is being conducted. I suspect that a whole lot more members would get involved if the meetings were made accessible this way. And it can work both ways - through better participation, the board would be better in touch with their members and so be better able to represent the member's. I used to ignore the AGM. The minutes didn't tell me much. But if I had been 'present' at the meeting, I would surely have been in my nearest board member's ear asking him questions.

I would like to get a rough idea of how many of the forum folk would use a webinar or audio 'telecast' to know what is going on at a AGM.

Don't let internet availability put you off, there are public libraries with internet in most towns and often it just takes a visit to your local club or neighbour to use their internet if your own is not up to it.

It seems that the cost would not be great once spread over a potential 12,000 members. Also, it should be possible to set up a login to make the information only available to paid members.

Peter

To my way of thinking, the proposal of a "working party for a second organisation" has merit. Not because I expect a new organisation to actually eventuate as a phoenix rising from the RAAus ashes, but because it allows interested people who have the skills we would like to see in RAAus to openly table their ideas about how to successfully organise the running of our governing body. It would allow the airing of lots of concepts that may even ( well, the better ones, hopefully) be adopted by our people rebuilding the dysfunctional RAAus. Sort of like modelling of a new open communicative, responsible group and testing the ideas. It allows the development and open processes that we (the complainers) would dearly like to see. It allows the contribution and participation of many more members than are presently allowed to be involved. These forums have opened my eyes to the many talented and knolwedgable members that we should be asking. We are not just a bunch of knockers. Nor just a bunch of cowboys. The ideas suggested already such as studying the merits of the NZ system sounds great. After all our present problems don't come (as far as we know) from a lack of regulation. It comes from a lack of due processes and lack of compliance with existing or new procedures. A heavier bureaucracy will only burden the administrators (and cost us more). I would like to see a lightweight regulatory system for our type of flying, coupled with a better culture of personal responsibility.

Peter

Turbo, please don't take offence re: my 'stirrers' remark. Nor anyone else. I was only trying to paraphrase what I think is the thrust of those against the EGM. I don't personally think that there is a hazardous stirrers camp unless you count the silent board and executive. I have faith in the due process of a properly conducted meeting. I would like to extend the communication so that more of those who have so far been apathetic, may get involved in the democratic process.

I, for one, am unable to get to Canberra for any meetings. Knowledge is required for us to make informed decisions (and a prerequisit to vote wisely). We can use our presently available processes to start reforming RAAus. This must happen as soon as possible. The purpose of this forum is to debate and air our thoughts and opinions. And to try to rationalise what is happening in our organisation - at this time we only have this forum to discuss things. Thank you Ian for that. Although there are not enormous numbers of us interacting here, remember that there are probably many more sitting on the sidelines wishing to get some facts to fill the information vacuum. Hopefully even some more of the board members ? I heard someplace that for every person motivated to write about something there are ten more who are thinking it but are afraid to voice it.

regards,

PeterT

Firsty, The only complaints I have read here regarding the calling of the EGM, revolve around the fear that a few stirrers might hijack the voting. My view is that hijacking could not happen if all interested parties (all members or at least a lot of them) simply take an active interest in the EGM, communicate their views and at very least send a trusted proxy to vote on their behalf. It is a democratic process after all.

Secondly, the streaming of sound would be a great step toward transparency and communication. Especially to help the majority who are probably unable to attend in person. Pending permission if that is required - is there anything about it in the consitiution? Any steps toward communication will work toward preventing misinformation getting out of hand.

Thirdly, what about slow scan video or low definitiion (lower bandwidth required), would that be possible? I'm sure that there would be some honorable members who would be prepared to stump up a donation/subscription to help pay for any overhead costs. For instance I'm sure my club would definately pass the hat around and we would have a dozen or so watching at the clubhouse. This doesn't have to be a television show, just a camera and a microphone near the front so we can hear the answers.

Again I ask.....

Is it possible to set up a webinar so that all interested members can hear the questions as asked at the EGM (if it happens)?

That way, members can phone their appointed proxy if something contentious and unexpected happens and they need to have an input before each vote.

It would showcase to the RAAus members just how effective an open communication process can be implemented.

The technical side would have to be planned right now in order to be able to set it up on the occassion. Any volunteers?

PeterT

Dear Board members who have entered this forum,

It is great to hear from you. I have now got some meaningful and useful input from at least some of the Board of RAAus. That is better than the official website has managed. Keep up the good work, please involve us members more in the process - tell us everything relevent - the good and the bad. We need to know where we are at and how to bring our organisation back to where it should be.

Dear Board Members who sit on the side lines reading our forum and not participating,

Please take the initiative to start open communication with the members. We need your help to restore RAAus to what it should be. We need to hear open and frank communication from you too. Become part of the solution. Please.

regards,

Peter T

I have watched the continual attempts by a small group to undermine the current executive and board. I am one year into my term on the board and represent WA. In the time I have been on the board I have worked hard to get as much as possible for our members, I unashamedly have had my main focus on improving things for our WA members, but haven't forgotten the bigger picture and have worked for the general good of the association.

I make it very clear that I take my due diligence very seriously and always vote only for what I honestly believe is the best for the association.

 

The fact is when I came on to the board I found that we have inherited a time bomb that was left from boards and staff long past. Even though the board has made attempts to resolve issues, many years of problems cant be solved overnight. It seems that a portion of our membership wants to blame the current board for things done long before we came on the scene, some of the people stirring the pot on this would have been on the board at the time the stuff ups happened yet are keen to blame the current board for them.

 

I have taken particular note of board members who go beyond what could be reasonably expected. It seems that most of them are the targets of ongoing and cowardly character assassinations from a clique within the membership.

 

The board of RA-Aus is not a paid group, we take the time when we would be flying and sink that into working to try to fix things to let you all keep flying. I have flown less than half my normal flight hours since being on the board, the time I used to fly has been spent arranging events and contributing to board duties. Much of the time I would normally have spent taking my wife out to somewhere special has been spent working for the association. So while you all get on this forum and slag off at the board we have put our lives on hold to work for you.

 

I can honestly say that I have acted at all times with integrity and honour as a member of the RA-Aus board. I have answered all member queries put to me both expeditiously and accurately. I have voted my own vote making my decisions on what I believe is best for the association.

 

My door has always been open and I have always taken calls from members when they wanted to discuss anything. The answers I have given are always honest and if I dont know the answer to a question I find it and get the information back expeditiously.

 

If any member has anything that they believe that I have done wrong during my time on the board, or if they feel that I have neglected my duties then I would like to hear it.

 

Gavin Thobaven

Many thanks for taking the time to comment to us via this forum. Your contribution to opening the communication channels is appreciated.

regards,

Peter T

Jim,

Thank you for joining our forum. It is sad that this avenue seems to be the only way that we members are exposed to any information about what is going on in our organisation. Maybe one day the RAAus website will offer us the communication transparency that we need. Your guidance is helping us to put events into perspective. It also helps to quell the more volatile voices. Please remember that most of us are not blindly listening to those scare mongers. We are just trying to get a handle on what is happening and to collectively find a way to get RAAus back on track. We know that there are hard working people involved, and would better appreciate their work if only we had better insight into the workings of our system.

thanks for playing a part in improving the communication flow,

Peter T

John,

I offer my personal 'thank you' for posting timely and honest information which is relevent to the members. You have shared your facts and opinions with a clear separation of each.

This is exactly the sort of transparency that we all hope to see from RAAus. It counters speculation by storytellers who try to fill every information void.

Exactly the sort of timely information needed to keep members happy (or maybe less unhappy), and informed.

I hope your example is noted by board and executive members, and also by prospective board or executive members.

Thank you for setting a standard.

Peter T

Wow, thanks so much. I've always pondered such things as the meaning of life and what I really am. Now at least I know what I am . . . . . . . . . .

Now, tell me again, what is the meaning of life?

Ian,

Would it be possible for a online 'interview' to be set up when elections come around? I would like to hear the candidates speak and have a opportunity to ask a few questions. That way I would be empowered and have the knowledge required to make an informed decision and actually feel that my vote really counts ! If RAAus won't do it on their website, would you consider doing it?

Peter t

Wow, that triggered off more posts than the reputation of RAAus !

WHERE DO RED-HEADED BABIES COME FROM?

After their baby was born, the panicked father went to see the Obstetrician. 'Doctor,' the man said, 'I don't mind telling you, but I'm very upset because my daughter has red hair. She can't possibly be mine!!'

'Nonsense,' the doctor said...'Even though you and your wife both have black hair, one of your ancestors may have contributed red hair to the gene pool.'

'It isn't possible,' the man insisted. 'This can't be, our families on both sides had jet-black hairfor generations.'

"Well, said the doctor, let me ask you this.

How often do you have sex???" The man seemed a bit ashamed..'I've been working veryhard for the past year. We only made love once

or

twice every few months.'

'Well, there you have it!' The doctor said confidently....

"It's Rust."

Hey, now you're talking. An interactive Q & A online would be great. Then you can look the guy in the eye as he speaks. Maybe get a handle on his integrity and motivations. I bet that would get more than the estimated 3% of us participating in the process.

Have a read of this

A Cavan driver is pulled over by a Garda on the N3 from Dublin on his way home. The Garda approaches the driver's door.

"Is there a problem Garda ?"

The Garda says, "Sir, you were speeding. Can I see your license please?"

...

The driver responds, "I'd give it to you but I don't have one."

"You don't have one?"

The Cavan man responds, "I lost it four times for drink driving."

The Garda is shocked. "I see. Can I see your vehicle registration papers please?"

"I'm sorry, I can't do that."

The Garda says, "Why not?"

"I stole this car."

The Garda says, "Stole it?"

The man says, "Yes, and I killed the owner."

At this point the Garda is getting irate. "You what!?"

"She's in the boot if you want to see."

The Garda looks at the man and slowly backs away to his car and calls for back up. Within minutes, five Garda cars show up, surrounding the car. A senior Garda from the serious crimes squad slowly approaches the car, clasping his half drawn gun.

The senior Garda says "Sir, could you step out of your vehicle please!"

The man steps out of his vehicle. "Is there a problem Garda ?"

"One of my men told me that you have stolen this car and murdered the owner."

"Murdered the owner?"

The Garda responds, "Yes, could you please open the boot of your car please?"

The man opens the boot, revealing nothing but an empty boot.

The Garda says, "Is this your car sir?"

The man says "Yes," and hands over the registration papers.

The Garda, understandably, is quite stunned. "One of my Garda claims that you do not have a driving licence."

The man digs in his pocket revealing a wallet and hands it to the Garda. The Garda opens the wallet and examines the license.

He looks quite puzzled. "Thank you sir, one of my Gardas told me you didn't have a license, stole this car, and murdered the owner."

The man replies, "I bet you the lying bastard told you I was speeding, too!"

John,

Please accept my apology for being one of the apathetic masses. I must accept my share of the collective blame for RAAus ending up where we are now. My only excuse is that I had no way of knowing who the candidates really were when the elections came up. Unless one has personal contact with the candidates it is impossible to make an informed decision at election time. So I took the easy way out and sat on the sidelines.

The present problem is "where do we go from here"?

Do we have any options? Are we left with CASA as our only guiding light/saviour?

PeterT

I recall notifying RAAus of two incidents in which I was involved, (non injury incidents) and after waiting some months, found a barely recognisable "report' in the RAAus magazine. There were none of my words used. I only recognised the text as referring to my notifications by the aircraft type and the basic nature of what I had reported. Nobody reading it would have been able to learn from my errors, nor even been able to recognise the event. There was nothing in my words which were likely to bring about litigious reactions from any person. So I can assume that there is a whole story hidden behind each and every incident reported. It would be productive if something in the nature of the air safety digest (without prejudice, etc) could be instigated so that the lessons are not lost. If there are good reports created by RAAus, then it is in the interests of all for these reports to be openly available.

So the result of all this is that we, the pilots, are denied the valuable lessons that might save lives, because RAAus board is afraid of litigation which might eventuate if the facts surrounding an accident were more readily accessible?