Greg Spiers

Thanks, I asked as I flew a 0235 in a PA22 for many years and although a little gutless it was a lovely engine in a delightful little aircraft. I have been watching the 0233 looking at an intended use in a larger gyro and haven't seen many in use as yet. The weight might be a problem. Thanks again I appreciate your info. Greg

Hi Steve, just curious to know what Lycoming you have and what do you think of it? Is it a 233? Greg

Thanks Hans, you'll be right, have a look at the Ken Wallis vid on utube, he was the guy that built and flew the Little Nellie gyro in the movie Live and Let Die. He is now in his 90's and planning to fly one of his 23 gyros round the world. Inspirational at the very least. There are quite a few on him, they have a Ken Wallis day in England where he appears and flies his gyro, the look on his face in some of them is priceless. Greg

That's him. I was giving a paper at a conference, at the Malanda Hotel, good pub that, on innovative fire management techniques. I had developed aerial fire incendiary bombing methods across the top end, it had been going on for years but I simplified it to work better with environmental management (mosaic burning patterns) and to work in with Aboriginal fire regimes and the politics of it all. I got a phone call from Werner and offered me the ride, it was great fun and I was happy to get out of the conference for a few hours. Don't know if you are interested (I'll tell ya anyway) the paper was about using R22 helicopters and ultralights instead of more expensive and less manoeuvrable alternatives like fixed wing GA and Jet Rangers, as had been the case, with automated machines. I ultimately wanted to use ultralights with manual dispatch and got into all sorts of bother with the CASA who eventually canned me. I had arranged to pick up a Skyfox (55-671 if ya interested) from Coloundra and fly it back to Kakadu for trials. CASA wouldn't let it go ahead and classified it as a Commercial Activity even though we were going to fly them ourselves on our own property because, the 'dropping of articles' from a plane required a commercial license according to their interpretation of the regs and, the cross hire of the aircraft was also classified by them, at the time, as a commercial activity because someone was making financial gain, CASA wanted a Commercial License and a GA registered aircraft, if it was going to be used for 'air work'. It was a mine field. The ABC got in on the act to support what we intended to do and I think they wanted to stick it to CASA at the time but I was getting a lot of pressure from my administration to not make an issue of it so I dropped it. I think Werner must have got my name through the AUF as the AUF were keen to see it happen. Oh well, that's life. Greg.

No No worries Frank. I was involved in the helicopter industry, remotely, wasn't an operator but did have a fair bit to do with it in the NT with the work I was doing for Environment Australia and many of my friends where flyers. I have dozens of stories like that one and I will post em as time goes on and I am reminded of them. I flew a drifter around the Atherton Tableland once, bout 1992 or 3. It belonged to a German guy who lived not far from Atherton, can't remember his name. He was a bid concerned when I flew over some tiger country for a while, he made the comment that I had a bit of faith in his 582. Ya gotta have faith in your aircraft eh? I was used to flying over tiger country in Arnhem land and Kakadu where I did most of my flying. I loved the drifter, almost don't see them anymore, more's the pity. I got out of flying for over ten years when I moved to Adelaide, built a house and all that stuff. When I wanted to get back in again I was shocked to see where it had got to in that time. I had a GA PPL A license and getting it back was going to cost me an arm and a leg ($6,000 was one quote) so I headed back to AUF but that had gone to LSA. I am too far from an airport so am looking at gyros as I have a chance of maybe flying off my property in the hills but I need to do more investigations and measuring yet, bit touch and go. Hope you enjoy your Drifter I know I did. Keep flying, stay safe. Greg

It is unbelieveable that people can't respect someone elses misfortune and gotta just make things a whole lot worse. Where's integrity gone?? I know of an incident of the lowest order when a mate of mine was flying a chopper in NZ at the height of the Deer catching period when one of his mates put out a mayday and location of where he was putting his MD 500 down on a glacier. When my mate got there he could see the MD strewn down the glacier and didn't expect to find any survivers. When he put down, there were other helicopter skid impressions on the snow, two deceased in the cabin but all the flight avionics missing. Doesn't get much lower than that but, any theft is unacceptable and even worse if it is someone who will benefit from someones allready desperate loss. It takes all kinds, unfortunately. Greg

Nup, out of Batchelor NT at the time. One now flying a Jet Ranger out of Torres Strait Islands and another operating his own company out of Katerine I believe. How's the weather in Deeral, used to be a District Inspector for Rural Fire in Innesfail for a short stint after leaving the NT, good weather for flying when it wasn't raining. G

Planesmaker, ofcourse you are right, it's a scale of economies. There are heaps of 'proven' power plants out there that have numerous design and technology changes over years of 'proving' but still fail with monotonous regularity, old and new, hence the AD system. I guess I could have been clearer in my motivation for mentioning it. I put it out there cause it could be inovative (if old technology can be called that) but that it has, for me some benefits if, as you say, proven. I have always struggled with running engines at 5,000 rpm when you only need 2200 to 2700 depending on what whizzy thing ya have, burning valuable energy turning a reduction drive when you might not need to. Call me old fashioned. I commend the inovative and dedicated engine designer/ builder who have admirably filled the gap from heavy GA engines to those requirements for LSA, ultralight and what ever other flying machine comes into the ' light' catagory and made them 'relatively' reliable, could we ask for more?? If I had my way I would be running a Lycoming engine in everything I had or dreamed of having but, that's just me and totally impractical I just always feel good with one up front or behind me. The 0-233 is getting there but still too heavy. Having said that, a $20,000 engine is rediculous for an aircraft that you might want to keep under $35,000 and $4,000 is a lot of money if you are building a 'cheaper' machine, it may mean all your coverings or avionics. It's a pitty when something cost an arm and a leg if it has 'aviation' stamped on it. I work in the health industry and it is the same. Flying should be for everyone and not subject to greed and extorsion but oh hell we're all human!! G

Flying is a risky undertaking as is walking across the street, driving a car, skate boarding or walking on wet tiles in the bathroom. It is the risk that insurance companies make their billions on cos, we think they are going to save us when the proverbial hits the fan out the front, rear, or above us, sorry to be a doom sayer again. Insurance is a mine field in aviation let alone for anything else. A good friend of mine who owned and operated a helicopter company was paying $35,000 a year premium on each of his R22 helicopters (this was in the 1990's probably more now) and that didn't include use of them for training. When I was offered one of them at cost, for my own commercial training I had to pay the additional premium to cover myself and the machine. It was cost prohibitive so I went to a flight training centre instead. When he did have an accident (his first in 15,000 hrs flying) they found a clause that negated the need for them to pay out. The slightest quivering from the schedule and they wont pay out. He had to find another machine at his cost ($200,000 at the time so it was financed) in order to keep operating. He cancelled his insurance, self insured the machines but maintained a public liability cover for the third party. He had to have insurance cover on the one machine on finance but if there was the slightest hiccup and the insurance wouldn't pay, in the event of another accident with the financed machine, he would declare himself bankrupt and go get a job as a cleaner or get on the welfare. This is the ransom you pay for the sake of insurance companies to make millions of dollars at our expense. I had insurance on the PA22 I owned (see pic) but I can almost guarantee I would be singing for a pay out if I rolled it up with a passenger in it that was less than sympathetic. Insurance companies are run by lawyers and what's that saying? What's the difference between a Lawyer and a Catfish? One's a scum sucking bottom dweller and the other is a fish. Mmmm, Wilpena, lived there for six years, fantastic area to fly over, did it heaps in Rasheeds C206. I must do it again soon. But, I will be doing it on my own, can't afford a passenger, what a bloody shame eh? Bigglesgreggles

Had an email from the D-Motor agent the other day, after I made an enquiry about pricing. This is a 92.5 HP 4 cyl, flat head (yep I said flat head) motor, fuel injected, ECU managed, direct drive engine that, funnily enough is designed to bolt straight on where you take the Jabiru engine off. The guys designing this engine (they also have a 135HP six) are thinking outside the square, worth a look if you LSA guys haven't already. It is a good looking thing, light small and maxes out at 3,000 rpm. The agent/distributor is Adam Nagorski, 0403485400, based in Melb, D-Motor Australia P/L www.d-motor.com.au Email; [email protected]. Have a look it's surprising. I was looking at this engine for a Gyro. Oh and by the way it's $4,000 cheaper than the equivalent Rotax injected engine. G

Thanks H, cleared a lot for me, not that I am intending to exercise the right but informative nonetheless. Ta. G

By now you all probably have researched it. I'm a bit of a late starter ya know! Don't try it with a semi rigid rotor head like a Jet Ranger, B47 KH4, R22 or R44 or 66, Rotorway, Scorpion or any other number of contenders. It must, for simplicity sake, be a fully articulated rotor head most of which are three blades or more. I think I am correct in suggesting a semi rigid head does not allow for the blades to 'flap' enough in order to roll it over in negative 'G'. The blades will come up against the stops wrap around you like a banana skin, if they don't snap off and the rest will be history. I am not sure what pilot inputs are required to successfully manage this trick but I don't really want to know!! Straight and level is good fun too!!

I am a bit late joining in on this one, someone might read it, but I am of the opinion that it is more the commercial fraternity and a certain Govt watchdog, or the people in it, ( you can guess which one) that has a set against amateur, private or recreational flyers, helicopter or otherwise. In a former life, I was tied up in helicopter contracts and operations for a Com Govt Dept for 15 years and it could and would get dirty, dishonest with heaps of sculduggery, back stabbing and any number of other underhanded occurrences in the process. Whilst in that job I got to CPL H, Ultralight cert, PPL fw and am now embarking on Gyro ( I now live down South). I was in a hanger in Darwin many years ago having a curious look at a 5/8 scale Hawker Hurricane being built by the ex CFI for the Darwin Aero Club. The machine was maticulously built, fastidious detail and workmanship. Also there was an inspector from 'that' Govt department having a look at progress, as well, and he said "While I hold down this position that thing will never get into the air". No reason given he just didn't want it flying. I came across this often. I was doing my cross country in a Drifter out of MKT with the CFI whom I had had several run ins with over other professional matters and it was indicated to me, whilst half way through the nav, that I should be very good today or I wasn't going to get my endorsement after he had said " I fight with you during the week and here I am having to fly with you on the weekends". It just doesn't need to be that way, with a little bit of effort we can all share the beautiful space we are so lucky to have in this country. I got the endorsement. I had it said to me that recreational flying was blight on the airways because we were not subject to the massive costs incurred by the commercial sector. I owned my own GA fixed wing for ten years and often came across the disgruntled commercial operator who was less than happy with amateurs in the airways, let alone 'that' Govt Dept. As for helicopter training, I have all my commercial requirements yet to get a PPL-H I have to undergo the BAK-H. Can't for the life of me think why except to just make it more difficult. I can tell you I am not a good student and the CPL ground school was the hardest thing I have had to do in the study dept. I got through it ok but jeez I had to work at it, plenty of sleepless nights and anxiety. I understand why there is a requirement for PPL-H to fly the sport/recreation helicopters having operated R22's for years, they are an exacting science. Helicopters are not for the untrained and I often doubted my ability to handle certain situations and feel that I could quite easily get deaded at the slightest error in the wrong place. They are unforgiving light rotor systems and I don't begin to imagine what some of the recreational helicopters would be like in an engine failure. The rotor rpm would wash off in miliseconds and if you didn't get the numbers right it will fail catastrophically and you with it. You have 1.2 seconds to get the collective to the floor in an R22 before you have lost your rotor speed, on engine failure. You have miliseconds to get the govenor off and start steering with the throttle on tail rotor failure. It ain't easy and many have come to grief trying to get their head round it. If your remotely close to the ground you have buckley's chance in a nut shell. Having said that, I would prefer to put a helicopter down in the scrub than a fixed wing. Keep flying and keep safe. Bigglesgreggles

My helicopter instructor told me, "If ya have to come down in the trees, try and avoid the big ones" "What" I said " The little ones hurt less?" You wont have the luxury in most cases it all happens in a big hurry and unless you're superman your mind will be going at supersonic speed in just about every direction for the first few second if you have that long. He also said, " If the engine quits and you have enough time, sit on the cyclic and let the accident investigator work it out". I recall an accident in the NT when all the occupants of a C210 where found deceased in their seats after a ditching in heavy timber, almost no marks on them. The pilot may have tried to stall the aircraft on the tops of the trees and 'flop in'. That's all well and good depending on how far you have to go to impact with the solid stuff underneath you. He did very well but, the 'G' forces ( I was reliably informed) involved in the sudden stop at the bottom tore the aortas out of all occupants hearts. Us humans don't do so well in vertical drops with a sudden stop, not so bad forward, backwards, sideways but not good otherwise. R22 helicopters have crushable seats for just such occurrences. The fact that we use this space for fuel pumps, spanners, hammers, pliers, first aid kits, beer, lunch and any number of other nearly useless articles is beside the point. Ever tried crushing a full can of beer? I know where it will reside if you fall on it from a great height, at speed. Don't try and stall it on the tree tops, remember, they are sharp sticks sticking out of the ground pointing in the direction from which you come, they are unforgiving. try, if you can, to mis the big ones, tear the wings of if need be. I have been to two accidents where the pilots were (intentionally or not) able to rip the wings off and mis the big ones. Both walked away, one was sitting on a stump when we got there waiting for a ride out. Bigglesgreggles

You are not in a mess Steve it's just another episode in life you have to deal with and you will deal with it no matter how big it seems at the moment. The fact that you are talking to people about it is the first step to recovery and there are, as evidence has shown in many of the replies you are getting, many of us who can and will help if we can. I discussed the two incidents above as a reminder of how ruthless things can get in the commercial world probably not so politically correct of me in your present state of mind but it is out there. We all suffer levels of sadness, upset, unfairness, disregard and any other adjective you want to throw at it but we can get through it. You are doing great and you will come through it and you will fly again. I lost my confidence for ten years over matters of my own making but am now back into it with renewed confidence. Good luck, listen to your true friends, you know who they are, keep ya chin up and fly on. Bigglegreggles

It happens, acquaintance of mine trashed an R22 into some power wires, commercial ops, dropped it on the ground, injured the passenger, trashed the chopper. The insurance company paid out the pax, paid out the helicopter owner, paid out the power company and all the hangers on and then went after the pilot. He lost his job, wife and family, house, any tax return he ever gets, no prospects of getting much insurance for just about anything, can't get a job and still owes millions!!! Take care, insurance companies don't give a flying frog who you are or what the circumstances are, if they can they will always go for the money. Young pilot in NT committed suicide because he was threatened with this type of outcome after putting a Cessna down in Arnhemland, many years ago, in the worst weather you can imagine. The operators insurance company would have gone him because of the circumstances and the CAA wasn't going to be any help either........By the way, the aircraft is still flying, pitty, he isn't. Doom and Gloom I know but it is all to evident and frequent we, the general flying recreators don't hear about most of them. Keep flying but keep safe. Bigglesgreggles.

Depends who you talk to. Safety in the air is often attached to other stats like; the number of type in the air, the uses, the number of passengers carried, the engines, the TBO's and any number of other aspects. I flew R22 helicopters for a number of years as a pilot and crew for up to 600hrs a year for ten years and whilst they have a light rotor system it was hard to beat them for the work we were doing. They were considered the safest helicopter in the world because at the time (early 1990's) they hadn't had an engine failure fatality. Again depends who you talk to. I had stand up arguments with turbine operators against piston machines but it was all crap because it was always a commercial interest that lay behind the arguments and plenty of back dooring going on to 'win'. All these types still only have one engine and one pilot. Australia crashes more R22 helicopters than any other country why, because we ask them to do more than they were designed to do. Frank Robinson designed them for a commuter helicopter, cheap to buy and cheap to operate, they were originally priced at $22,000, you'd be lucky to get a new one for $300,000 now. Frank Robinson, after visiting Australia and seeing what we were doing with his machine, refused to warrantee them in this country. I have done many hours in B206's, they are a fantastic helicopter and a great reliable platform but, I wouldn't put one where I've put an R22 and be able to get out again. You can put a Bell 47 down in auto, engine off, pick it up, turn 360degrees and put it down again before losing lift and/or rotor speed, I've seen it done, ya wouldn't get within cooee with a Robbie you'd probably roll it over before a quarter way round. Horses for courses eh? I love em all!!

Thank you Alan. If you actually get to read this after all the others and their wish lists it is refreshing to see people wanting to get back to basics and for good reason. I am now venturing into Gyros because of being driven out of fixed wing by elitism, cost, the need for additional study/exams when I have been flying for years and proximity to airports. Just like GA it just gets harder, more costly and lots less fun. The most fun I have had other than flying helicopters for some years was in a drifter and my own PA22. 60 to 80 knots, watch the would pass under you peacefully, get to see stuff like crocs, buffs, lizards, even watch a bit of a cricket game from the best seat in the house. String bag aircraft are even better now with the availability of reliable engines, good technology in metals and fabrics and they don't have to cost a bomb. I am staggered at the cost of LSA aircraft given they don't contain anywhere near the value in materials, your paying for someone else' development when it's all been done before (don't get me wrong, Gyros are the same). I completely rebuilt my PA22 (Piper Colt 108) from the ground up, myself, under distant supervision, for $8,000, an engine was going to cost me $35,000 but I could rebuild it for about $10,000. Back to basics guys, it's much more fun!! Greg

Hi all, I am the latest addition to this forum it seems, am in my twilight years at 60 but still trying to fly. I have been in helicopters, GA fixed wing, ultralights and more recently LSA. Well, time to move on so I am now embarking on some gyro training after the hip replacement next month jeez, sounds ominous doen't it? I may then have flown most genre with engines. Not too keen on the stuff without engines though I did get keen on hang gliding when I was 17 but had to wait too long for the right conditions, frustrating!! I look forward to learning more and I hope I can do that here as well as perhaps, tell the odd near death experience and maybe help where I can, love to. Cheers and safe flying, Greg.