vixen

and you'd say the same if your loved ones were onboard? me thinks not. besides the awesome safety record of air travel has got there due to a never ending pursuit of facts after an accident

Yes - still operating. Don't know which days tho. I fly from next door club (Sydney Recreational Flying Club) and Dave's there every weekend (wx permitting of course)

Wouldn't a good, simple, inexpensive start be to fit every RAA a/c flight with a Gopro or equiv? Yes I know it doesn't prove the cause of an accident but it may provide some strong clues?

wow- operator only changed last Thursday?!

A 1996 King Air operated by MyJet Aviation of East Bendigo. Very Sad

Of course all pilots know that in an aircraft accident there is almost never just one reason - usually the good old chain of events.. I wonder if the sun was a contributing factor here... he's flying into it and as the wing drops a significant reflective flash of the sun can be seen on the windscreen. As he started to tighten the turn was he momentarily blinded and lost his horizon reference? Plus (as Dutch alluded to) - the startle factor. (love that Dutch!). I guess we'll never know but I suggest there are a lot more chain links to this tragedy than a simple "he stalled it turning finals".

Thanks Kaz

Are you sure Mr. Happy?... My app says Wyndham Aviation P/L, of the same address.

What an odd thing to say (not knowing the whole conversation of course). I mean it surely would depend on whether the pilot was ab initio vs highly experienced

Good on Peter Harlow from Foxbat Australia for being so quick to post a preliminary report.

The weak nose wheels were the Achilles heel of early Foxbats but they've progressively beefed them up with several design revisions. This Vixen nose wheel should have been the beneficiary of that legacy of an improved strong nose wheel. Just guessing, therefore, that on a previous touch and go the pilot may have subjected it to a very serious side loading (x wind / gusts?) &/or wheel barrow. New to type also? I trust Peter Harlow from Foxbat Australia will be seriously investigating that on this new type.

I already stated I don't buy "The Captain dun it" theory. Why would he kill 100's coz he was a bit peed off with the politics in Malaysia? And/or where was his history of insanity, a la the German Wings FO? I could go on. Suffice it to say - It doesn't have enough evidence to assert such imo. If there is please enlighten me? I have never supported any conspiracy theories. However, in this case I suggest we should be considering UMNO racketeers as a possibility. A well planned suicide operative could have done this - and brilliantly (in a vile way) made it look like it was the Skipper. And I suggest more than a few wildcard nutters in the UMNO tentacles thought they had good motive to do so. A bit Hollywood??? ... yea I used to think like that... until 9/11 "Fact can be stranger than fiction" ? Cheers

Onetrack: Old galleons would have got blown East with their hull and sail areas easily, for sure. However with MH370 I think you are assuming that the 777 hull floated. I doubt it floated at all. Even if it ditched successfully (which is highly unlikely) it would not have floated for long. Hence the currents would surely be the dictator, not the winds? Would the prevailing currents have brought it to WA, based roughly on the current search area? Cheers

Thanks.. and whats the duration of the pilot o2 on a 772ER ?

I suggest we can be reasonably confident in assuming that for at least the last, say, 6 hours of flight all aboard were deceased. How EERIE is that?? DR: Can I pick your brain again please? How long do most 777 pilot oxygen systems last? ... Let's say best case scenario - a 777LR? I can probably troll thru PPRUNE and find this info but, quite frankly, that site mostly drives me nuts. Cheers

hahah. Love it! Onya matey

Thanks DeltaRomeo and.. would the pilot O2 bottles be in the same bay? No prizes for guessing where I'm going with this.... Cheers

Yenn & Litespeed: Fair enough - I hear you and have empathy for your argument. However, have you asked yourselves if your loved one(s) were on that aircraft would you have the same stance? And, are you 100% confident of flying on a B777 again - knowing one has disappeared without explanation? Fact is it is our 'backyard' and being a rich and (arguably) smart country we should show our empathy, generosity, & expertise. IMHO we should keep going - like I alluded to, if we can spend $200mill on some dumb plebiscite that makes zip difference to anyone's safety we can spend it alternatively on something that might! Dutchroll: can u tell me if the 777 electronics bay is accessible from outside the F/D like the 747, or is it like the A330?

I respect many opinions (especially Dutchroll) BUT I just don't buy "The Captain dun it" theory. I won't bore anyone reading this with my reasons why, and what I consider may have happened. What I would submit here tho is that we MUST MUST MUST keep searching till we find it and find out what did happen! Sorry to bring politics up but, just maybe, if we stopped wasting $200 mill on some daft plebiscite and put it towards this humanity may be a little better served. Besides the gay community should have to suffer marriage, and divorce, just like us straights have had to! End of rant - thank you.... plus tax.

Yes you are guessing PM. Part of our "silent review" check list prior to take-off or landing is to look for a ABP (Able Bodied Person) who we may direct to help us in an emergency. Preferably say, as an example, the civvie you noticed put his Army slouch hat in the locker upon boarding. However - where your argument falls short is nobody really knows how an untrained person will respond in an emergency. Much research over eons has found that it's often the big boofy gym toned bloke in a tank top will go to water and freeze! Whereas the vertically challenged tiny young girl will be the towering strength and hero! Furthermore you say on one hand you respect cabin crew and yet you'd punch them on the nose if they didn't do what you reckoned should be done. Fact is ALL pax should, nee MUST, follow the crew's directives.

Thanks DR. Interesting - I had no idea fire crew are on a different frequency - so I guess that might put my speculation to bed. lol. Overall, I see this accident as one of the most intriguing of recent times (MH370 being THE most ofcourse!) I wonder what decision was made re evac? Was a decision actually made? - or was it "all berry bad lah" but zip done? Can barely await the report. Finally, thanks for your support for Cabin Crew - in my experience pax generally have no clue re their training and skills. 6 - 8 weeks training and constant checking - for what?.... how to pour a G&T? doh. CHEERS

Thanks for your comments Dutchroll. (and Nev). Oh I am so aware what crew go through re sims & CASA required checks. Good on u! Please note I never said the Fire Chief had the call - I said "advised", not "directed". It was just another 'variable" I chucked in. Yup, it's a Captain's call. No argument there (+ gst.) And fair comment. All I have been trying to say since my 1st post is threefold: 1) The Skipper has to make some millisecond life or death decisions, and unfortunately that is often not the work of a moment. 2) He IS the Captain, and he shall be obeyed, not over ridden by some over opinionated pax, or Johnny come lately. 3) Speculation & debate is great imho - lets do that - but let's not make out like we know better! Cheers

Thank you Nev - voice of calm reason! Having spent about 35,000 hours as Cabin Crew and experienced 1 or 2 near disasters & stacks of incidents, I can say most ATPs are extremely deep thinkers trying to weigh up all the parameters and possibilities, not to mention taking calls & instigating check lists, in sometimes milliseconds. Furthermore, you can have all the procedures in the world but there is often a curved ball thrown in for good measure. They use that EVAC phrase with great caution, knowing there are a million things can go wrong. It's a very brave call. But for the sake of debate... If I recall correctly, the Singapore Fire Station is almost slap bang where a wide body stops after landing. They possibly have the best equipment in the world. The only speculation I would therefore make is: The Fire Chief called the Skipper & advised him the whole starboard wing was ablaze & spreading, & they would be onsite in 1 minute, & recommended not to evac. The pilot may have quickly done the sums - minimum 15 second engine shut down + 90 second evac, with only half the exits available, & chance a crew member may shoot off a starboard slide by mistake, versus wait for the storm troopers who would be 60 secs + 10 sec extinguish.... 70 secs v 105 seconds... waiting for fireies was quicker with possibly less risk. If the above is correct imagine the outcry if he had ordered an evac (& possible disaster) when he had been advised not to! Mmmm.. mayb not... maybe they simple stuffed up, but got lucky, and I will have to eat my words. But as with all airline accidents, we will all be wiser in the long run. Like you, Nev, I await with intense interest.

As an International Flight Attendant for over 30 years I have to say: 1) I hope you are never on 1 of my flights - that's a despicable comment. 2) Being a pilot, you, more than anyone, should know the Captain calls the shots & the crew & pax follow his commands 3) Opening an exit (do you know the procedure & vital precautions to take?) may well have brought the fire inside (a la Manchester) 4) There are numerous procedures & assessments, practiced and tested ad nausea, by tech & cabin crew, that would have been made here 5) Almost EVERY accident / incident is different with all sorts of variables 6) A hasty evacuation may well have been a disaster in this case 7) We must wait - at least 30 days - till the prelim report is published to find out the sequence of events before jumping to conclusions 8) Speculation is fine, but wildly emotive responses & robust comments are inappropriate 9) ALWAYS follow your crew's directives - they are highly trained professionals 10) Mistakes may well have been made, but the bottom line is all survived unscathed (physically) - so it was a success! mmmm.. that top 10 should do it for my 1st post here! Cheers