Landing on Dirt Strips

[pudestcon]

G'day Thruster Fliers and others,

 

Ultimately my T500 will have a home at my mates (he likes to be known as Poll) farm (farm name is "Wirraway") where we will obviously have a dirt strip - well 2 strips actually!

 

My question is in relation to technique when doing wheel on landings. My technique as taught is on touch down to 'nudge' the stick forward to pin the aircraft down by reducing the angle of attack. Now it occurs to me that on a dirt strip there is probably more 'drag' from the strip surface which is likely to induce a nose down effect (less angle of attack?) requiring less forward movement on the stick ,or maybe no "pinning down" required at all. Is this something I should consider or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

Here are some photos of the airfield we will use. Still some work to do but you'll get the idea.

 

Pud

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tomo]

Doing wheeler landings in the Drifter the other day on grass/dirt/gravel strips, you'll still need to check forward in my opinion.

 

Btw, looks like a great area for the strip!:thumb_up:

 

 

[facthunter]

Wheel landings.

 

Pud, have you always done wheel landings in the thruster? Nev

 

 

[pudestcon]

Yeh Tomo, we think the area is great for an airfield.

 

Nev, Only ever done wheelers both in Drifters and now in Thrusters. Have never been given any instruction on 3 pointers but I recognise the advantage of 3 pointers in getting in to short strips and less strain on the landing gear. Maybe have to learn the technique.

 

Pud

 

 

[Guest rocketdriver]

Hi Pud

 

IMHO, and not wanting to teach Garandpa how to suck eggs, you will still need to nudge the stick forward, but only nudge .... Reason, when you touch down, the main wheels stop their descent, but the tailwheel doesn't, so the angle of incidence increases and you lift off again .... bounce!! Nudging the stick forward at the right time stops that from happening. Exception ...... the Thruster stalls before the three point attitude is reached, so if you can touch down in a tail low wheeler just at the stall, you might not bounce ... if you get it right! But I would still plan to nudge the stick forward just in case .....

 

BTW, if the strip is wet and soggy, I would be looking to do a soft field .... 3 point, minimum speed and a fair bit of engine ... not sure if I can remember how to do that in a Thruster!. If /when I get one, I'll have to practice!

 

Regards

 

RD

 

 

[pudestcon]

Hi PudIMHO, and not wanting to teach Garandpa how to suck eggs, you will still need to nudge the stick forward, but only nudge .... Reason, when you touch down, the main wheels stop their descent, but the tailwheel doesn't, so the angle of incidence increases and you lift off again .... bounce!! Nudging the stick forward at the right time stops that from happening. Exception ...... the Thruster stalls before the three point attitude is reached, so if you can touch down in a tail low wheeler just at the stall, you might not bounce ... if you get it right! But I would still plan to nudge the stick forward just in case .....

BTW, if the strip is wet and soggy, I would be looking to do a soft field .... 3 point, minimum speed and a fair bit of engine ... not sure if I can remember how to do that in a Thruster!. If /when I get one, I'll have to practice!

 

Regards

 

RD

Are you inferring I'm old Rocketdriver:angry:;):big_grin: - you ol' fogey you!!

 

I'm going to have to get some instruction in the various techniques when the time comes as I've only flown a Thruster from a sealed strip - have to visit Bindoon I think.

 

Pud

 

 

[captbigwings]

Hi Rocketdriver,

 

"angle of incidence "

 

"angle of attack", maybe.

 

Steve

 

 

[Tomo]

Only ever done wheelers both in Drifters and now in Thrusters.

You'll find three pointing the Drifter is wayyyyyyyy easier than wheeling it on, I always three point it, and just do the odd wheeler to keep current on the technique.

 

 

[facthunter]

reason for question re "Wheeling"

 

PUD, If the strip is rough, or soft or not very long, wheeling it on may not be the go. As the mainplanes stall before the tailwheel touches. It is actually hard to do a three pointer unless you do a very well timed pull back on the stick to "plant" the tailwheel on the ground, just as the wing stalls. It is just the last 2 or3 inches of tail down, that I am talking about.

 

Tony Hayes was in the process of re rigging the angle of incidence, as a modification to make this less critical, because it is quite tricky to get it right. If you do it with a bit too much speed on, you balloon and end up in the air at very low speed. (Not good) and if you don't do it positively or are a bit slow (airspeed) you will bounce as you don't control the sink rate, and never get the tailwheel on the ground, making the bounce more likely. Hope you can understand this. It is as if the elevators do not have enough effect. Having a bit of power on makes them more effective than would otherwise be the case, but the real culprit (According to Tony), is the riggers angle of incidence of the mainplanes. Nev

 

 

[Guest rocketdriver]

Hi Rocketdriver, "angle of incidence "

"angle of attack", maybe.

 

Steve

True ....

 

 

[Guest rocketdriver]

Are you inferring I'm old Rocketdriver:angry:;):big_grin: - you ol' fogey you!!Pud

Didn't mean to ... and I am!:big_grin:

 

RD

 

 

[Guest terry]

Hi pud, having done 550 landings in my t500 before my crash I can tell you that you become so good with wheeler landings that you automatically ajust to the conditions

 

with one exception, mud that needs to be treated with respect. where I had my thruster there are too 20 plus years thruster pilots who only do 3 pointers and I've never seen either of them mess one up. So it can be done with practice. Me on the other hand well enough said, I'll stick to wheelers as my preferred landing and with my disc brakes I can do wheeler pretty short

 

Terry

 

 

[Guest terry]

 

Angle of incidence

 

Angle of incidence is a measure of deviation of something from "straight on",

 

Hi steve the diagram explains angle of incidence if you can relate it to the centre line of the fuselage to chord line of the wing.

 

Terry

 

 

[Guest terry]

Angle of Incidence

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



The angle of incidence is the angle between the aircraft's longitudinal axis and the chord of the wing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That' better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[captbigwings]

Hi Terry, maybe this will clear it up. Cheers Steve

 

Angle of incidence of fixed-wing aircraft

 

 

Angle of incidence of an airplane wing on an airplane.

 

On fixed-wing aircraft, angle of incidence is the angle between the chord line of the wing where the wing is mounted to the fuselage and the longitudinal axis of the fuselage. The angle of incidence is fixed in the design of the aircraft by the mounting of the wing to the fuselage.

 

The term can also be applied to horizontal surfaces in general (such as canards or horizontal stabilizers) for the angle they make relative the longitudinal axis of the fuselage.

 

The figure to the right shows a side view of an aeroplane. The extended chord line of the wing root (red line) makes an angle with the longitudinal axis (roll axis) of the aircraft (blue line). Wings are typically mounted at a small positive angle of incidence, to allow the fuselage to be "flat" to the airflow in normal cruising flight. Angles of incidence of about 6° are common on most general aviation designs.

 

Other terms for angle of incidence in this context are rigging angle and rigger's angle of incidence. It should not be confused with the angle of attack, which is the angle the wing chord presents to the airflow in flight. Note that some ambiguity in this terminology exists, as some engineering texts that focus solely on the study of airfoils and their medium may use either term when referring to angle of attack. The use of the term "angle of incidence" to refer to the angle of attack occurs chiefly in British usage.[1

 

 

[pudestcon]

G'day Terry,

 

Yeh, I guess I'll sort it out once I get the aircraft to it's new home and start using the strip. Got a long way to go though.

 

Pud

 

 

[pudestcon]

Come on ol' fella .... you can do it :thumb_up:David

You betcha David,

 

You've heard the one about "The old bull and the young bull"? It's all about taking your time, 'sticking power', and stamina - stuff us old blokes have got in spades:thumb_up::thumb_up: Eh David?

 

Pud

 

 

[pudestcon]

 

 

[pudestcon]

Just came across your old post here David so I gave Pacific Flyer a call. Carol will do some research and I'll ring here back this afternoon - might get the whole series that Tony did if available.

 

Cheers,

 

Pud

 

 

[Guest striker]

I've mostly used grass and dirt strips in my thruster and always use the pin tecnique for wheeler landings. I reckon you'll find the dirt strip easier than the tar due to the fact that the tyres wont grip as much as the tar, making the handling less twitchy or sensitive.

 

Phil

 

 

[Yenn]

Why not use 3 pointers for Thrusters? I know Tony Hayes always preached wheeling them on, but I have over a couple of hundred Thrustar landings and only one of them was a wheeler. I did it after a lot of people told me I shoule and immediately decided I prefer to 3 point it. I cannot see any reason to wheel on a taildragger as whatever you do you still have to get that tailwheel down and the sooner the better in my opinion.

 

 

[Guest striker]

Hi Yenn

 

I got taught both tecniques and try to practise both. From memory i believe a wheeler landing is more appropriate in a crosswind.

 

 

[Guest rocketdriver]

IMHO, it depends on the a/c. I usually 3 point (or used to when I was doing lots) and in fact I only learnt how to wheel it on when I started flying a Winjeel .... some a/c swing like anything when the tail goes up or down, and those I preferred to 3 point so the swing was no longer an issue. Some have no forward vision in the 3 point attitude and on a narrow strip, I would want to 3 point those too ..... The Harvard and perhaps the Tiger Moth too for instance. For the rest, I believe that a well executed 3 pointer is much kinder on the a/c due to the reduced speed and distance of the landing run ..... and safer because the aircraft is below flying speed almost immiediately after touch down .....

 

 

[pudestcon]

Well sounds like I need to learn the three wheeler technique.

 

I haven't contacted Pacific flyer again yet but will get Tony's articles if they are available.

 

Pud

 

 

[Riley]

Tony's Tips To Tidy Thruster Touchdowns

 

Pud

 

If you draw a blank with Pacific Flyer or it gets too pricey, the TOSG magazine archive has all of Mr Hayes' notes, musings, instructions etc on the whys and wherefores of 3 pointing & wheeling. My page copies are available for loan should you want to peruse. You'll have to leave your spleen or one of you eyeballs as security against their return though.

 

cheers