Why are Jabs so damn hard to fly????

[Vev]

Hi Dave,

 

Just hang in there mate ... it will all become second nature after a while and you will find it will get hard wired into your DNA. Everyone feels over loaded when you frist learn and everyone is capable of a bumpy landing even with 1000's of hours under their belt.

 

When you balloon the 160 you find you are usually too hot and using too much stick movement too early ... talk it over with your instructor and get him to walk you through the technique.

 

If it all feels like it's going wrong or it's NQR just go-around and have another go ... the runway will still be there when you get back.

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[Guest milton56]

I know what you mean. I own a savannah and have been flying a jab. I find the savvy easier to fly.:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

They're all different !, and of course some are easy to fly, and others not so. There is a great deal to be achieved from flying different types, as opposed to sitting in the same machine all the time. Tomos' got the right idea trying on different types, and his capabilities in the cockpit show that already IMOP.

 

I often ferry aircraft as it is a great way to experience different or new types, and because there is always something to be learned from each type.

 

Rarely do I hop in an aircraft that I haven't flown before without talking with somebody who has flown one. And I'm never too proud to accept, (or give ) a quick check-out if it is offered.

 

Every aircraft has it's particular habits, and these often are not mentioned in the pilots' operating handbook.

 

It is much easier to get the info ahead of time first-hand, then to unnecessarily experience the bad part yourself.

 

As an example the Skyfox compared to the Lightwing, even though they are both taildraggers, are quite different machines to land, and the Drifter different again.

 

The easiest I ever flew was probabily the Flightstar, a baby could land it. The Savvy VG is one of the safest and easiest to manage machines I have flown lately, and as I have said before would make an excellent trainer, far easier to manage than the Jab for a student, many of whom are easily turned off at that period, and often quickly disappear when the training lessons become way more pain, then pleasure. (both wallet and posterior !). We need more happy new pilots, not unhappy, broke and turned off ex-students in this sport.

 

I have heard many eroneous comments on flying the Slepcev Storch for instance..IE: Don't go near one, they crash for no reason, and are very hard to fly. !.BOLLOCKS !! The Storch is one of the easiest and nicest flying aircraft, with perfectly balanced controls, extremly good flying qualities, and an aircraft that will do exactly what you want it to. To crash a Storch would be a failure indeed, and you would seriously have to be asleep at the wheel !!.

 

The Lightwing is also a machine that has extremly good and well balanced manners. However it is nimble enough to continuely 'light the fires' for a pilot looking for the wide range of capabilities in the one aircraft.

 

Compared to the 'early days' where the aircraft were often very marginal in both lift and power performance, with some more than happy to quickly kill you if you made one significent error, we now have a choice of many types. It is a real shame we can not fly twin engined UL aircraft in this country, the Lazair which is still to be enjoyed in other parts of the world, was a great learning tool, and one of the finest wings one could ever fly. It is our loss. The majority of todays aircraft are mostly considered 'Honest' aircraft with most of the bugs and major design faults and safety concerns long since ironed out.....Enjoy them all !!.........................................................................Maj...

 

 

[turboplanner]

We're still not getting much specific information on the individual Jab models yet.

 

 

[Steve Donald]

whats the problem

 

We're still not getting much specific information on the in, dividual Jab models yet.

Hiya guy's, hey the Jabs are pussy's to fly, i have flown many types of aircraft low performance rag and tube to high performing types, all of the current series of Jabs are a joy to fly.

 

speed control is essential and trim for all operating conditions, maintain the correct speed and decent rate on final with power to adjust sink rate light touch on the stick all the time hence maintain good trim.

 

High drag machines are easy as they don't tend to run away when you drop the nose and slow down quickly when you remove power, so precise trim and power manage often is not learned, however it does still apply and you will fly all types better with good power and trim and speed control and not just rely of the inbuilt braking of the airframe.

 

The Jabiru can land very short using full flap and power to place it on the ground in a controlled decent i use this method to work out of a 350mtr landing zone no problem in the J120, saves brakes as well.

 

JABIRU'S are often landed way to fast, and then pilots find themselves in ground effect for ever the Most vulnerable time of the flight. ooooh low and slow, hope this helps some

 

 

[bilby54]

Couldn't agree more Steve. Is the approach speed really 66 knots??

Most problems are caused by approaching to fast and I wonder if this is not a typo form Jab??

[turboplanner]

are we now talking about the 120?

 

 

[Guest Kevin the Penniless]

The Jab has cables, similar to cables on a motor bike, that control the flying surfaces. Compared to the Tecnam, Sport Cruizer etc they feel really 'tight'. Maybe that's the answer. I flew a Sport Cruizer recently and the pressure on the stick to control the plane was so slight compared to my Jabiru J170.

 

 

[shags_j]

I wondered the same. Final at 66knots seemed quite fast (j160)

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Here is my opinion of the J160.

 

J160.

 

Takeoff. The 160 is a high loading winged aeroplane, and therefore needs quite a turn of speed before the wing works properly. The ground roll is longer than any of the other models. The TOSS being 66 kts means you need to fight the temptation to pull the nose up to early. Once 66 kts is achieved it behaves a lot better, holding some back pressure on during the ground roll is essentiual to stop the squirliness due to the short wheel base and other factors.

 

Most 160's will fly hands off no problem in the cruise, trimmed out. Some develop some roll, usually to the left. Im not sure why, probably some rigging differences.

 

The approach in the 160 is deffiantly the most difficult part. As i mentioned earlier, the secondary effects of controls are quite significant (rudder and aileron). A real key to flying a stable approach is to do as little as possible on the controls. Trim for the right speed and use power and attitide to maintain the right angle (that ones for you tubz) but leave the thing alone as much as you can. Allow the natural stability to do most of the work, and keep corrections small and early, rather than large and late. 70 kts on final with 2 stages of flap, and 65 kts over the fence. As others have said, speed control is crutial. Bleed off energy slowly, as in, dont fly it to the ground then raise the nose and hold off. Start a gental raising of the nose and try keep a slow, continious movment of the stick into the flair. NEVER EVER pole forward in the flair. If it flatlands or wheel barrows, the science takes over and a progressivly worse bouncing motion starts, each one forcing the nose down earlier and earlier until bounce 3 or 4 will have the prop doing some turf cutting.

 

Back pressure should stay on during braking to stop wheel shimmy. The brakes seem to wash off the first half of the speed quickly, but the second half seems to take forever, even with a prime up. Perhaps this means they become less effective when more weight is applied, as apposed to bigger ga types.

 

I will do the other types later...im tired...

 

 

[shags_j]

Thanks Merv. Interesting points.

 

Whats with the wheel shimmy. What have they done so wrong to cause this. The tecnam never gets this kind of problem.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Im no engineer, but i think its due to the angle on the nose leg and attachments, they changed the angle a couple years back and the problem isnt as bad, but still there. Its a real pain

 

in the a$$

 

 

[turboplanner]

I didn't miss it Mo

 

 

[jetjr]

WHeel shimmy can be due to a problem like warped rotor OR more likely the stub axles need alignment

 

In past only camber was adjusted for, it is a bit complex as the camber AND toe in varies as the load comes onto the legs and the brakes are applied

 

Im not sure what toe in etc it requires, constructors manual doenst really say either, but once I added a washer or two in mine the problem basically went away

 

 

[Guernsey]

Hi Guys,

 

Just a question as to whether Jabs are hard to fly, has anyone tried spinning a Jab230d if so, was recovery straight forward. Alan.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Guys,Just a question as to whether Jabs are hard to fly, has anyone tried spinning a Jab230d if so, was recovery straight forward. Alan.

Spinning is Prohibited in the Jabiru and all RAA registered Aircraft.I doubt that someone will admit to it here on a Public Forum.

 

 

[Yenn]

Rod Stiff has spun them for certification, supposedy they bahave normally. From my experience they wouldn't spin easily and releasing back pressure would recover them. I found them easy to control with full back stick and keeping the wings level with rudder.