WOW! to this engine

[Blackhawk]

It looks like someone has finally gone outside square.

 

www.maengtech.com

 

This engine could be the ultimate for aircraft in the years to come; it can be scaled to any size, is very fuel efficient and has extremely low emissions AND SMALLER THAN A TURBINE.

 

The engine in their video is a 150cc Proof of Concept engine and puts out 10HP and weighs 6.3kg

 

Check out the videos; it may be a year or two before they're available, but I cant wait; and the aircraft possiblities are unlimited.

 

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

The demo 150cc would be perfect for the lazair, they would bolt straight on with just a minor change to the C/G.

 

 

[blueshed]

That is one cool piece of machinery, when will they be available?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Didnt seem to run very long on any of the videos, and in each case the motor seemed to shut it self off ratehr than he did it through the kill switch.... Fuel load in each case looked to be less than an eggcupful.

 

I wonder how cooling will be achieved... perhaps liquid, but I dont think I saw a radiator, perhaps thats why the run times were so short

 

Andy

 

 

[stanzahero]

does this mean we go back to the days of "rotary" engines not "radial" ones?

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Love the concept . . . It's a great one.

 

Hard to see any reason why it could not be increased to the same size we currently see on single piston motorcycle up to about 600cc & 40-50hp. That has the potential to make it a serious rival for the Rotax 503 in our 95.10 category if it can tick the boxes for efficiency, reliability & lightweight.

 

Cheers,

 

Glen

 

 

[winsor68]

These model aeroplane engines look similar and have been available for a few years now... They have not been as popular as the traditional engines but I have not heard of any problems with them...

 

RCV120-SP

 

 

[jwatts]

Congratulations goes to Michel Arseneau for thinking 'outside the box'.

 

Can't wait on further developments.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

have a good look at the website. the cyl revolves around the piston it is nothing like a 'rotary' engine. the revolving cylinder control the inlet and exhaust timing removing the need for the valves, rockers, pushrods and cams. remarkable design pretty simple in concept, getting it into production will either mean big bags on money or selling it off to established engine manufacturers.

 

 

[stanzahero]

I still don't think it is the holy grail....

 

There have been things like this around for ages..

 

...sleeve and rotary valves...

 

The big issue was always compression sealing and oil consumption.

 

A similar design is already in use for model engines is SP range of RCV engines.

 

It has only the single con-rod connected to a gear driven rotating sleeve.

 

Nice idea but it is limited to a single cylinder and the component strength of the cylinder gear.

 

Stanzahero.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

According to the pdf.... Dynamic Cooling

Now Im feeling that I'm old enough to detect marketing giberish when I see it....and I think I see it.

 

Can anyone tell me what "Dynamic cooling" actually is or means. In traditional terms dynamic means changing and static is fixed. So what changes...

 

I can see that they say the cylinder rotates...but so what? What I couldnt see from the picture of the device was any cooling fins in the airflow

 

Andy

 

 

[Blackhawk]

I found out why the engine run's are so short in the video's; that engine is the Proof of Concept engine and is not fitted with an oil system and it runs on a teaspoon of oil each time it's fired up.

 

They said they are currently working on a full test version which is 250cc and it will be fitted with a dry sump oil system, starter motor and an alternator and they will be rigerously testing it to document all the performance figures.

 

Also the engines they are considering for Recreational Aviation were;

 

250cc 20/30HP 140mm dia x 305mm long 8.2kg weight (W/O starter & alternat.)

 

500cc 40/50HP 178mm dia x 343mm " 10.0kg " ( " )

 

750cc 70/80HP 210mm dia x 381mm " 15.9kg " ( " )

 

1000cc 100/110HP 247mm dia x 432mm " 20.9kg " ( " )

 

MAET said these were estimates at this stage, but the figures would be very close.

 

The 750cc and 1000cc will also be available in Turbocharged and all these engines will be Spark Ignition Diesels.

 

Any more info you would be better off talking to them direct.

 

 

[Blackhawk]

: WOW! to this engine

 

Andy,

 

I asked your question about the engine cutting out by itself and the photo shows the kill swictch .

 

The other photo shows the air-cooling vents and in the circled area you can see the cooling fins on the rotating cylinder.

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Aspects that Might Concern.

 

The rotary valve has been around for a long time. In two stroke induction ie. Rotax 582 (and plenty of others) it is fine but handling exhaust temps, not so successfull. Reason- distortion and the difficulty of lubricating it.

 

The other problem is that each crank is only supported on one side. It is cantilevered like a small donkey engine or a model aeroplane engine.. This is a design flaw that would seriously limit it's size and power output and reliability.

 

The balance would be very good and piston skirt loads are reduced as stated although there would be a tendency for the piston to want to twist each rod as they are not on the one axis but offset. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

all these engines will be Spark Ignition Diesels.

 

I find that hard to believe, considering the definition of a diesel engine is compression ignition.

 

 

[Blackhawk]

Hi Yenn,

 

There has been a lot of advances in diesel technology in recent years that contradicts the standard configuration of a compression diesel engine.

 

There are companies who are converting petrol engines to diesel using the spark ignition process but they use very high pressure injectors (160,000 PSI) and the engines usually run between 12 and 17:1 compression ratio.

 

They also have the added advantage of eliminating diesel knock and pre-ignition which is a habit in traditional diesel engines.

 

Here is an Australian company who uses this technology;

 

:: Green Diesel ::

 

There has been a lot of development in diesel technology since Nicolaus Otto designed the diesel in 1861.

 

 

[Mick]

These model aeroplane engines look similar and have been available for a few years now... They have not been as popular as the traditional engines but I have not heard of any problems with them...RCV120-SP

Ever wonder why the longest established and most successful distributor of Model Engines in Australia dropped their agency for these engines???

 

Lots of problems and lots of comebacks from unhappy customers.

 

The problems were alot less in the same brand conventional style engines.

 

This info came from an employee of said company.

 

 

[Thalass]

An interesting concept, but i don't see it as the ultimate in propulsion. That, to me, is electric! haha.

 

But i would be interested to see it work, and perhaps how it goes coupled to a generator.

 

I don't know how they can say it has low vibration. It's a single cylinder! Fair enough there'd be no vibration left-to-right, or up-and-down, but there certainly should be vibration forwards and backwards.

 

 

[Blackhawk]

Hi Mick,

 

Why are you comparing this engine to RC engines. From what I've been told this engine was designed from the ground up to be used in any number of uses, Hybrid cars, motorcycles, jet skis and recreational aircraft.

 

As you say, a couple of the design features in this engine had been tried in RC engines but with limited success, but as far as I can assertain the designer of this engine has overcome those problems and I would take more notice of an engine designer/builder with 32 years experience than someone who only sells RC engines.

 

When you say; "This info came from an employee of said company." do you mean the company that is building these Rotary Piston Engines or the Australian RC engine distributor.

 

 

[Mick]

Hi Mick,Why are you comparing this engine to RC engines. From what I've been told this engine was designed from the ground up to be used in any number of uses, Hybrid cars, motorcycles, jet skis and recreational aircraft.

 

As you say, a couple of the design features in this engine had been tried in RC engines but with limited success, but as far as I can assertain the designer of this engine has overcome those problems and I would take more notice of an engine designer/builder with 32 years experience than someone who only sells RC engines.

 

When you say; "This info came from an employee of said company." do you mean the company that is building these Rotary Piston Engines or the Australian RC engine distributor.

Hi Graeme,

 

I made no comparison of model engines to this engine, I merely responded to others who had mentioned model engines of a similar style.

 

 

[Blackhawk]

Sorry Mick,

 

I misunderstood you.

 

With your experience in RC aircraft you would know that any engine in miniture will have many more problems than an engine that is built 5 or 6 times larger; in a larger engine you get bigger and better bearings, better machining finishes and an allround more robust engine.

 

I came across this quote and I think it sums it up beautifully;

 

New Technology goes through three stages:

 

First it is ridiculed by those ignorant of its potential

 

Next, it is subverted by those threatened by its potential

 

Finally, it is considered self-evident.

 

by-unknown

 

 

[stanzahero]

Small technical point, there Blackhawk.

 

Designer of the diesel engine was Rudolf Diesel.

 

Nicolaus Otto was known for his work on two stoke spark ignition engines, and was the one who was credited with perfecting the standard for stroke cycle.

 

Stanzahero.

 

 

[Blackhawk]

Hi Stanzahero,

 

I had diesel on my mind while typing that, they call it a "Grey Moment" these days don't they.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Yenn]

What Rudolf Diesel designed was the compression ignition engine, known to us as the diesel. If the ignition is not by compression temperature, it is not a diesel. S no spark ignition diesels.

 

Blackhawk your list of 3 stages is probably absolutely correct, but for years we have been seeing the "Ultimate engine" which the designer says will overcome all problems. Unfortunately the only real new engine design in the last 75 years was the Wankel. there are plenty of research companies, but they seem to be living on government handouts and never produce the goods.

 

I was looking at a British company that is developing control systems to enable common rail diesels to be used inplaces other than where they were designed for. If I can find the site I will post it here later.

 

 

[Yenn]

Here is the site I was referring to above.

 

http://apple.clickandbuild.com/cnb/s...antPageDisplay