HeadInTheClouds Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Just found this a second ago while looking for something on google, looks like an expensive accident: http://www.pixstel.com/6648.html "Approaching Popham Airfield, Aeroprakt A22 Foxbat G-CWTD seemed to loose power. A wing dipped touching the ground, resulting in wing and undercarriage collapsing. Occupants emerged unhurt." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Ouch alright! Looks like he was trying to park her a bit high... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadInTheClouds Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 I don't know how this even could have happened unless it was a pretty strong gust of wind. Other than that there isn't much excuse for a control input like that.... Found this description too: Taken just a few seconds after the Foxbat had come to a halt. The aircraft appeared to approach the runway very slowly before yawing to the right, leading to the wing dropping. The left wing struck the ground & this subsequently caused two of the wheels to break-off on impact. No fire occured, & both the pilot & passenger escaped without injury. From this site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ojfphotography/4570618202/ Another photo by the same user on Flickr said the aircraft yawed and this caused the left wing to drop... Also: http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/august_2010/aeroprakt_a22_foxbat__g_cwtd.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Stalled and dropped a wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I don't know how this even could have happened unless it was a pretty strong gust of wind. Other than that there isn't much excuse for a control input like that....Found this description too: Taken just a few seconds after the Foxbat had come to a halt. The aircraft appeared to approach the runway very slowly before yawing to the right, leading to the wing dropping. The left wing struck the ground & this subsequently caused two of the wheels to break-off on impact. No fire occured, & both the pilot & passenger escaped without injury. From this site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ojfphotography/4570618202/ Another photo by the same user on Flickr said the aircraft yawed and this caused the left wing to drop... Also: http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/august_2010/aeroprakt_a22_foxbat__g_cwtd.cfm Okay, flaunting my ignorance here; Why would a yaw to the RIGHT cause the LEFT wing to drop? If the left wing stalled the nose would yaw left. I suspect a wind gust caught the pilot by surprise. There have been a few times I have found myself belting down the runway with my wing tip just off the ground, mainly why I won't fly in hot, gusty conditions (beer drinking conditions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadInTheClouds Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Okay, flaunting my ignorance here; Why would a yaw to the RIGHT cause the LEFT wing to drop? If the left wing stalled the nose would yaw left. I suspect a wind gust caught the pilot by surprise. There have been a few times I have found myself belting down the runway with my wing tip just off the ground, mainly why I won't fly in hot, gusty conditions (beer drinking conditions). One description says that and the other just says yaw caused the left wing to drop, must be a mistake somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Pity, They are a delight to fly. They have excellent controllability at low speed, but they are as flimsy as hell in construction. Difficult to tell the severity of the impact from sequential photographs. He must have still had some power, the prop was spinning. First picture shows a fair bit of right aileron down ... that wouldn't help the roll at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 A problem with aircraft that can land real slow is that the margin between wind over the wing and wind in general gets smaller so it can be easier to have the wing stall in turbulence and gusts if you are landing at minimum speed (in these aircraft). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Looks more like it was heading left and the pilot tried to pick the LH wing up with aileron - which at low speed wouldn't have been so effective. Wonder why he didn't use hard right rudder to yaw it straight and in doing - lift the left wing? happy days, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 But Iggy, I know where Pots is coming from as a tailwheel pilot. Picture this, you are in a tail wheel aircraft at late final in a stiff cross wind, you have the into wind wing real low and a fair bit of top rudder in to track straight. You are flaring to do a two pointer (the into wind wheel and tail wheel to land first) ... you are right on the stall and a strong gust picks up the into wind wing and you are in real danger of a tip over. At this point the rudder is your best friend, you aggressively kick opposite rudder to what you are holding to keep her straight and this has the effect of accelerating the down going wing to lift it and stall the up coming wing to keep it down. These are almost counter intuitive moves. At this point you are on the stall and it might not look pretty and the aircraft will lope onto the ground and your speed is so slow even the resulting minor ground loop will cause you no trouble. You have just saved yourself from a very ugly outcome. Do you understand what he is saying now Iggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 And probably the reason he hit the left wing ... look at the first photograph and see where the right aileron is ...??? I don't recall a lazy rudder on the Foxbat I flew Iggy, but it was a while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 You got to love reading these reports sometimes.When the backside covering starts, normally with the story telling.In this eg- Pilot stated that his attention was withdrawn away from monitoring the aircrafts speed, and towards the gyrocopter further down the runway "blah blah Just come out with the truth- Three words will allways cover it.They are " I F^&k#d Up". Simple:joystick: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Bloody short ground roll. Im being a bit harsh.Sounds like the bloke got distracted and forgot the fly the aeroplane.Its that simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 One comment: 1.3-1.5 Vs on approach and rudders for directional control at low speed. Try picking it up with aileron at low speed at your own peril.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aussie carl Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 far out !! Done some pretty ugly 13knot crosswind landings last week and didn't break nothing so that must have been a big hit to bust the UC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 far out !! Done some pretty ugly 13knot crosswind landings last week and didn't break nothing so that must have been a big hit to bust the UC. HI Carl, sorry mate.I didnt read anywhere about a gust of wind, the 12 mph wind should not have been a problem.The wing dropped.That wing had stopped flying.He was flying to slow on final and round out from what I can gather looking at the photos and reading the reports.He says he was distracted looking at a Gyro up a head.If the Gryo was coming into play, on lets at a guess say turning final.He should have gone around.This is pure speculation as I wasnt there or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Is it just me or is that right wing flaperon being down, whilst the other one doesn't appear so? Or it could be left aileron I suppose, but why do that when you're tipping left! I'm confused, or was there a flaperon failure. Agree with the use of rudders for low speed operation! Anyway, either way at the end of the day it wasn't a good one for the aircraft! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Is it just me or is that right wing flaperon being down, whilst the other one doesn't appear so? Or it could be left aileron I suppose, but why do that when you're tipping left! I'm confused, or was there a flaperon failure.Agree with the use of rudders for low speed operation! Anyway, either way at the end of the day it wasn't a good one for the aircraft! That is a good point Tomo.Its a bit hard to pick up much in the pictures, but see exactly what you are saying..Im am going on the pilots report.Where the pilot said he was distracted and not monitoring the aircraft speed .To me between the lines means "got too slow". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aussie carl Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 What ever happend the ocupants walked away and that's all that realy matters I say. Worth every ucraian $. lessones will be learnt by pilot and if we get the full story we may learn something to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BUBBLE Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Look at the first two shots-the control sufaces tell the story. But its real easy to be judgemental in front of a computer. I have had a wing lifted just before touchdown in my bat from a sudden gust during a x wind landing. Could have ended like this- just lucky I caught it in time. The best part of that sequence of shots is the two occupants getting out unhurt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 When things are getting slow, forget the ailerons ( almost) and use the rudder (and the elevators). When an aeroplane is slow it is VERY susceptible to gusts. STOL planes are fun, except when the winds are unpredictable and gusting. They just have too much lift..Sudddenly. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rocketdriver Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Just a comment ... can't really see, but it looks like the prop just stopped at first strike on the ground. The one blade you can see in the second last picture appears to be undamaged? ...... When I dug mine in 6 months ago in VERY boggy ground, with the engine at idle, both blades shattered, one near the tip (the first one in) and the other closer to the root. The broken part of this one was left 6 inches underground and almost invisible, so soft was the soil. With that in mind and with the ground looking to be firm, maybe the engine had stopped producing power and the prop was just windmilling ...... If so, that wouldnt have helped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadInTheClouds Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Just a comment ... can't really see, but it looks like the prop just stopped at first strike on the ground. The one blade you can see in the second last picture appears to be undamaged? ...... When I dug mine in 6 months ago in VERY boggy ground, with the engine at idle, both blades shattered, one near the tip (the first one in) and the other closer to the root. The broken part of this one was left 6 inches underground and almost invisible, so soft was the soil. With that in mind and with the ground looking to be firm, maybe the engine had stopped producing power and the prop was just windmilling ...... If so, that wouldnt have helped! Would the same thing happen if the throttle remained at idle for the whole incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rocketdriver Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 If the engine is idling, it is producing some power and it is likely to be rotating a bit faster than a failed engine that is producing no thrust and is slowing down .... In my case the power produced and the intertia of the idling engine was sufficient to smash both blades even though the ground was soft enough for my a/c to sink below its axles ...(the reason for the overturn) .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadInTheClouds Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Ahh ok then, probably depends on the engine too. I didn't expect my thread to generate so much discussion, I guess it is an odd accident and the report doesn't really explain what happened to cause it too well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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