bones Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ok this was a thought that was started from the "hope this helps others" thread. I didnt want to completely hijack that one so i decided to start my own and ask the question directly. What is your preferred navigational style; chart and compass, or gps, or a combination of both, or is there some other way you do it? While im at it WHY? I could have done a poll for this but never done a poll thingy before so i just stick with asking the question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GraemeM Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Map to ground and compass, just like the army taught me. Learn to read a map and relate it to what you see on the ground. Works for me. Graeme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastmeg2 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Using a map has the added advantage of being able to pick Points of Interest to see along the way. It's much more interesting and fun than just flying a straight line course between 2 points. Another bonus is that on occasions when the GPS stopped working I was still able to find my way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sain Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I really like using a GPS, for the convenience and ease of it. I do use the map and compass as well, and check off on landmarks/waypoints as I pass them. The reason I use both is for those occassions when the GPS goes a little haywire, or has a broken power connector or dead battery. I've had all of those happen to me in flight, and its something that doesn't bother you in the slightest if you've got the map already out and your current location, heading and (updated) estimated arrival time marked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I use both. I plan the trip manually and have the calculations beside me when I am travelling, marking off the checkpoints and times. The GPS gives me a double check on course, drift etc and at 55kts IAS something to do that helps pass the time. If the GPS stops (and it has), then there is no problems, just keep using the trusty map and compass. I agree with Eastmeg2, its a good backup but the map lets you wander and look at interesting things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Good to see the replies so far, it was something that got me thinking. A few years ago i flew to Wangarratta in Vic, i sat down and plotted my course for fuel stops ect all the way down and tried to do a different route home, then found all the gps pionts for everywhere, made a folder with all the printed off Ersa pages for each, numbered then 1,2,3 ect, and programmed them into the gps the same way. Then when i left i "goto 1" then "goto 2" ect all the way, but i still always had the map open on the passenger seat just to double check land marks ect. It was good cause i am a sticky beak and was looking about everywhere, only glancing at gps every now again, and lining up on hills or even clouds on the horizon for a rough marker,,, very relaxing way to spend a couple of days fly one end Oz to the other(well nearly). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Even on local flights, I carry a local map on my kneeboard. Not that I really need one for the local area, but it is just habit and if I don't have it, I feel like I've missed something. For navs, I plan on AirNav VFR. If I haven't flown in the area before, I often review the route on Google Earth to assist with identifying terrain heights, the nature of the terrain (tiger country, etc) and landmarks that are easily identifiable visually as well as being on the map(s). From that I may alter route or planned altitude according to what I find. When finalised, I print the map segments, mark them up with pen (track, 10 mile markers etc.), and fill in my own flight plan sheet for my kneeboard. If I've used waypoints that aren't in my GPS, I add those waypoints so that I can use them if I choose to set a GoTo or route on the GPS. To go on the back of my map, I make up a sheet with cut / paste from DAP and / or ERSA airfield diagrams for planned and alternate airfields. If an airfield has no ERSA entry, I've been known to copy the immediate area from Google Earth into a drawing package and make up my own DAP. Often this is done before the day of the flight. If so, then on the day of the flight, I fill in the winds, planned ground speeds, fuel plan and route segment timings. In the air, I use the GPS for heading based on the fact that it's compass display shows "actual Track", which should match my planned track. I also have a compass as a back-up, but to use that I then have to compensate heading for drift manually. I occasionally compare the compass heading with the GPS track, although by comparing visual ground track against physical aircraft heading, I have a good feel for the extent of drift. I navigate from map to ground and may occasionally verify from the GPS. The GPS is also really handy for reading ETA for the inbound / overflying call, so If I haven't set a route on the GPS, I will often set a GoTo before reaching the 10 mile approach point. Sometimes I forget to set the GPS and have to do the mental arithmetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I carry all the charts for the area I am flying in together with my ERSA as required by the regs. And I use clock and compass for flights outside my comfort zone. But I also have a Garmin 295 and AirNav moving map running in the cockpit, and one of Ian's little 5" GPS's as a spare. I check my position on the map against what I see on the ground and what my electronic helpers are telling me so I have my position at any particular point in time accurately located. The electronic stuff, expecially the moving map is a fantastic help in CTA or when things are really busy in the cockpit, because I can spend more of my time looking outside. I just like to have that added reassurance of relating that to the relevant WAC/VNC/VTC . kaz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Non TSO GPS cannot legally be used for the sole or primary means of navigation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Non TSO GPS cannot legally be used for the sole or primary means of navigation. Not just a non-TSO GPS. Even a TSO GPS cannot be used as primary or sole means of navigation for VFR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcsmith Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ok this was a thought that was started from the "hope this helps others" thread.I didnt want to completely hijack that one so i decided to start my own and ask the question directly. What is your preferred navigational style; chart and compass, or gps, or a combination of both, or is there some other way you do it? While im at it WHY? I could have done a poll for this but never done a poll thingy before so i just stick with asking the question. I usually fly with a WAC chart on my knee, portable gps on the top of the panel which I switch on if I want it. I typically look at ground features, possible landing sites, ink in POI's on my map. The GPS can give me progress, Wind speed, and is useful for emergency diversion info. I have spent a lot of time towing gliders, often two at a time, on long ferries, and keeping track of paddocks and other landing areas was important. Tel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ok this was a thought that was started from the "hope this helps others" thread.I didnt want to completely hijack that one so i decided to start my own and ask the question directly. What is your preferred navigational style; chart and compass, or gps, or a combination of both, or is there some other way you do it? While im at it WHY? I could have done a poll for this but never done a poll thingy before so i just stick with asking the question. Mine is map and compass and watch with GPS as backup. Map and compass are not likely to fail and I believe map and compass is what real navigation skills are all about (including the time/speed/distance calculations etc). But, so much of my flying is over familiar territory I often just point the nose in the right direction and go, still with map available if things go crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 wont fly vfr with anyone that uses a gps...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Even if you are just flying in your local training area it's a good idea to carry the local WAC chart for the rare occasion where your airfield is closed while you are up, fog rolls in, localised storms etc. Without that you have to start guessing a heading for the nearest airfield you can remember under conditions which have just upset your comfort zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Map, Compass and watch... I use Ozrunways from time to time to give me the odd bit of conformation. It's brilliant when in and around airspace, restricted, danger and prohibited areas. I used a GPS one time.. only 'cause the autopilot was connected to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naremman Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Navigation in the WA Wheatbelt is a very pilot friendly activity. Nice and flat, fences generally aligned with he compass points to help orientation, magneteic variation close to zippo, and Co-operative Bulk Handling conveniently building substantial white grain silos at most towns. When I learnt to fly in the 1970's GPS was not on the scene, so it was a total reliance on map, compass and a watch. I had the good fortune to have an ex-Army pilot as an instructor, who had a great love of navigation and he generally managed to instill his enthusiasm into his students. He always loved to incorporate a fair component of 500' AGL into a Navex, something I have silently thanked him for many times over when flying in crud. I had the same instructor for my Class 4 Instrument (NVFR these days) rating. When a Motorola T12-C manually tuned ADF was THE navigation aid, being well versed in the fundamentals in navigation was a decided benefit. I do use a handheld GPS when flying, but always regard it as an AID to navigation, not the principal reference. When flying aircraft with a cruising speed of around 100 Kts cross country, finding the best level with wind can have a lot of time benefits. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Any combination of chart, map, compass, time piece (x4), GPS (OK I admit it), ILS, VOR, ADF, pen, thumb, forefinger and whizz wheel (CR5). Oh and not forgetting good old fashioned local knowledge! PS: Why are people who are out for a bit of recreational flying be it GA, or RAA, getting around with 2, 3 and even 4 GPS's? I just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 PS: Why are people who are out for a bit of recreational flying be it GA, or RAA, getting around with 2, 3 and even 4 GPS's? I just don't get it. Maybe the areas of the brain that drive the desire to want to fly are the same areas that make some of us 'gadget geeks'. Similar to math nerds playing with Rubic cubes. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sain Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm curious about the wont fly with anybody who uses a GPS for VFR comment (and likes). Any particular reason for this? The way I use the GPS it just makes life a little easier. If it fails you just keep on doing what your doing with the map, compass, whizzy wheel (e6b), watch etc. You'll still have everything marked on your flight plan, including updated ETA etc. Whats the difference if the GPS is there or not? For example on the flight I did on the weekend my GPS crashed and shutdown (I was testing new software on it). Getting it going again would have been a minor irritant and distracting while I'm flying, so I didn't bother and kept going using the manual methods. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sain, you're legally required to fly with map and compass, and getting lost is an offence. GPS batteries can fail, there have been a few GPS input accidents, and when a GPS goes, how do you continue, find your way home, or more importantly, find an alternate. So I can understand the person's thoughts. I'd also step out as soon as I knew the guy couldn't navigate. Over the years we've had quite a lot of people posting that they would never get lost, but they've only ever flown over country where there are plenty of unambiguous identification points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sain Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Thanks turbo, well aware of that (well, not that getting lost is an offence, that was news to me. I thought getting lost could be an offence depending on where you strayed into). I also wouldn't be keen if the gps was the sole source for the nav... most people don't seem to do that however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Getting lost is not an offence - if it was most of us would be guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 It is, and I think I'm the only one on here who's ever admitted to getting lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naremman Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 One is never lost, temporarily uncertain of position maybe, but never lost!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 One is indeed, in fact one is en route....until that final surge when the tank gives up it's last drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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