Tomo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Just a quick question that I could get answered calling my LAME but thought it'd be an interesting topic anyway. What is the legal implications of working on your aircraft that is in experimental category, but you have purchased it off the original owner? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av8vfr Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 My understanding of the GA experimental is that only the original builder or a LAME can carry out maintenance / servicings. Of course if it gets rego as a 19- RAA then as a L1 you can carry out the service yourself. Happy to stand corrected tho.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan_c Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 What are the actual maintenance requirements for a GA experimental? Do they require the same maintenance as a normal GA plane (annuals etc), or is it closer to what RA Aus requires? I suppose what I mean is even if you would have to get a LAME to carry out maintenance in that situation, will you need to have as frequent/expensive maintenance as a normal GA aircraft? Just curious is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopdangler Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 My understanding of the GA experimental is that only the original builder or a LAME can carry out maintenance / servicings. Of course if it gets rego as a 19- RAA then as a L1 you can carry out the service yourself.Happy to stand corrected tho.... got it in one av8vfr, with the exception of: Copy of Schedule 8 of CAR 1988 Schedule 8 Maintenance that may be carried out on a class B aircraft by a pilot entitled to do so under subregulation 42ZC (4) (subregulation 42ZC (4)) 1. Removal or installation of landing gear tyres, but only if the removal or installation does not involve the complete jacking of the aircraft. 2. Repair of pneumatic tubes of landing gear tyres. 3. Servicing of landing gear wheel bearings. 4. Replacement of defective safety wiring or split pins, but not including wiring or pins in control systems. 5. Removal or refitting of a door, but only if: (a) no disassembly of the primary structure or operating system of the aircraft is involved; and (b) if the aircraft is to be operated with the door removed — the aircraft has a flight manual and the manual indicates that the aircraft may be operated with the door removed. 6. Replacement of side windows in an unpressurised aircraft. 7. Replacement of seats, but only if the replacement does not involve disassembly of any part of the primary structure of the aircraft. 8. Repairs to the upholstery or decorative furnishings of the interior of the cabin or cockpit. 9. Replacement of seat belts or harnesses. 10. Replacement or repair of signs and markings. 11. Replacement of bulbs, reflectors, glasses, lenses or lights. 12. Replacement, cleaning, or setting gaps of spark plugs. 13. Replacement of batteries. 14. Changing oil filters or air filters. 15. Changing or replenishing engine oil or fuel. 16. Lubrication not requiring disassembly or requiring only the removal of non-structural parts, or of cover plates, cowlings and fairings. 17. Replenishment of hydraulic fluid. 18. Application of preservative or protective materials, but only if no disassembly of the primary structure or operating system of the aircraft is involved. 19. Removal or replacement of equipment used for agricultural purposes. 20. Removal or replacement of glider tow hooks. 21. Carrying out of an inspection under regulation 42G of a flight control system that has been assembled, adjusted, repaired, modified or replaced. 22. Carrying out of a daily inspection of an aircraft. read in conjunction with the full CAAP and associated regs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks DD, so it's basically just like a normal GA aircraft if you aren't the 'actual' builder, despite it being experimental cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopdangler Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 exactly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Correct. Basically, if you built it and you have passed an approved Maintenance Procedures Course, you are allowed to maintain it yourself but you have to comply with all the CASA rules and regulations regarding annuals, documentation, etc. However, the builder maintenance privileges do not pass on to the purchaser of a VH registered experimental aircraft. rgmwa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 exactly Rightio, well most things in Sched 8 are the things you'd really only need to do anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Of course you can do anything under the watchful eye of a LAME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 When I was talking to the president of the SAAA late last year at (Canungra International) .They, the SAAA are working with CASA , towards approval for people who have done the Maintenance Procedures Course and have not build the Aircraft. To be able to do their own maintenance, just like RAA pilots are allowed to do their own maintenance. They are using that as evidence that pilot maintenace works . Most of the gents I spoke to at Canungra, where saying the most LAME"S dont want to touch Experimental Aircraft anyway. (Their words, not mine). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 When I was talking to the president of the SAAA late last year at (Canungra International) .They, the SAAA are working with CASA , towards approval for people who have done the Maintenance Procedures Course and have not build the Aircraft. To be able to do their own maintence, just like RAA pilots are allowed to do their own maintence. They are using that as evidence that pilot maintenace works . That sounds like what the FAA in the US already allows for ELSA aircraft. The purchaser can maintain the aircraft if they have passed the 16 hour Repairman's course (like our MPC). It would be great if the SAAA manage to get it through. Just hope I live long enough to see it! rgmwa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The Maintenance Procedures Course is not what you would expect/ there is no how to do mainenance, but it is all about how to comp;y with the legal requirements, such as what you must do to sign off after maintenance. It is also all about where to find the required information to do a job, or what jobs have to be done and when. I found it much harder than actually doing maintenance, but I am not computer literate and also not much good at finding things on the CASA site, which you need to know all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XAIRVTW Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 All of the above is correct the builder can still carry out the maintance on that aircraft if you are the new owner. BUT if something went wrong he could be liable, All builders that I know including myself that have sold VH Experimental Built aircraft wont continue to do the maintance for that aircraft. The MPC course that the SAAA have only covers CASA regulation & paperwork you dont learn how to do tappet reseting or compression checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 All of the above is correct the builder can still carry out the maintance on that aircraft if you are the new owner. BUT if something went wrong he could be liable, All builders that I know including myself that have sold VH Experimental Built aircraft wont continue to do the maintance for that aircraft. The MPC course that the SAAA have only covers CASA regulation & paperwork you dont learn how to do tappet reseting or compression checks. XAIRTVW. This is correct however, when talking with CASA a while back, they said that when they issued the new "instrument" last year it was intended that when an aircraft was sold by the builder then the builder was not to do maintenance (issue a maintenance release) on that aircraft and all maintenance would be carried out by a LAME so we may see a change in the future. I understand that any LAME can do the work and he/she does not have to be operating under a maintenance AOC. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 XAIRTVW. This is correct however, when talking with CASA a while back, they said that when they issued the new "instrument" last year it was intended that when an aircraft was sold by the builder then the builder was not to do maintenance (issue a maintenance release) on that aircraft and all maintenance would be carried out by a LAME so we may see a change in the future. I understand that any LAME can do the work and he/she does not have to be operating under a maintenance AOC.Cheers In many respects, that would be good news for many builders, who are often prevailed upon to continue to maintain an EXP aircraft after they sell it to a 'local'. In any case, working with your LAME isn't unrewarding for a new owner. I do all the hack work with my -9A, and learn something new each time. There's quite a time saving for your LAME if you do this. One of the things which CASA seriously need to do is get GA out of this AOC structure - for both flight instruction and maintenance. In the US at least, instructors instruct - and the FAA tests. No 'delegations' for ATO's to do the regulators work.......what a novel idea! If your students fail - the FAA takes a particular interest in your instructing abilities. I think maintenance by their 'A & P' qualified people works the same. happy days, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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