RAAus Aircraft Register

[FlyingVizsla]

The aircraft register on the RAA website is a year out of date. Recently this has led to the mistaken belief that an aircraft involved in the Brandy Creek accident had a cancelled registration when it had actually returned to the register a few months ago. The media could get the wrong impression and cause undue hardship to family & friends.

 

So what is the problem with updating the register on the web site on a regular basis?

 

The CASA register lists a lot more detail about the aircraft and owner - should RAA's register do the same or is there already too much information for your liking?

 

Sue

 

 

[winsor68]

I have always felt it is inappropriate to publish the details CASA's does in this day and age...

 

IMO the files should be removed and a greater emphasis placed up the role of CFI's in our training facilities... Perhaps in return for dropping fees and charges involved in the role (cost to CFI's personally) there could be an improved reporting system with all of the up to date info available to them only...

 

Basically all CFI's would then be in effect able to keep a track of all pilots and aircraft they come across and make sure they are legal... In effect a proper and widespread Operations Reporting sytem.

 

 

[pudestcon]

In my view if the information is available on the website (or anywhere for that matter) then it must be up to date. My aircraft was re-registered last year but still appears on the deregistered list. I don't have an issue with the details being available, only the currency of the information.

 

Pud

 

 

[winsor68]

In my view if the information is available on the website (or anywhere for that matter) then it must be up to date. My aircraft was re-registered last year but still appears on the deregistered list. I don't have an issue with the details being available, only the currency of the information.Pud

I can't see a problem with publishing the Rego, Type and status... But I still cringe at the fact that anyone can see a picture of an aeroplane and in 30 seconds know the registered owner and there whereabouts such as on the CASA website...

 

 

[kaz3g]

...I still cringe at the fact that anyone can see a picture of an aeroplane and in 30 seconds know the registered owner and there whereabouts such as on the CASA website...

Why? It's about accountability...

 

The alternative is probably very expensive.

 

kaz

 

 

[ave8rr]

I can't see a problem with publishing the Rego, Type and status... But I still cringe at the fact that anyone can see a picture of an aeroplane and in 30 seconds know the registered owner and there whereabouts such as on the CASA website...

Don, I dont have any problem with having my aircraft ownership available. It is no different to NZ, USA Canada or a lot of other places. What I do disagree with is that because the RAA list is so secret that those who should be paying landing fees to keep aerodromes open often grizzle about continual aerodrome closures. I know of plenty of aircraft RAA up here (YPKU) not getting billed whereas I always pay my $22.00 landing fee here and else where.

Cheers Mike.

 

 

[ave8rr]

The aircraft register on the RAA website is a year out of date. Recently this has led to the mistaken belief that an aircraft involved in the Brandy Creek accident had a cancelled registration when it had actually returned to the register a few months ago. The media could get the wrong impression and cause undue hardship to family & friends. So what is the problem with updating the register on the web site on a regular basis?

 

The CASA register lists a lot more detail about the aircraft and owner - should RAA's register do the same or is there already too much information for your liking?

 

Sue

Sue, if the register was up to date with every new registration issue (with as much detail as is currently published) and aircraft remained registered until cancelled by the owner then we would not have this current issue of expired registrations on a register that can't be kept up to date for what ever reason!

Cheers Mike

 

 

[David Isaac]

The problem as I see it is that RA Aus operate under a completely different registration principle.

 

GA aircraft are registered until cancelled by the owner, registration is neither proof of ownership or proof of airworthiness. A typical GA aircraft also has a registered operator, a certificate of airworthiness and a maintenance release. So a GA aircraft although registered must also have a Certificate of Airworthiness (not required to be carried in the aircraft when operated in Australian territory) and a current maintenance release which is issued by a LAME each year or 100 hours following the normal inspection. So the ATSB need only check the maintenance release following an accident to see if it is legally current because it cannot be issued unless there is a certificate of airworthiness.

 

All RAA aircraft owners have to do is get an L2 to sign off when the aircraft is initially registered and pay the ongoing annual renewal; there is no ongoing requirement for an annual inspection by an L2 each year before the RA Aus registration is renewed. I think that policy is problematic because an aircraft may be legal as far as RA Aus is concerned but it could easily NOT be airworthy. We think registration is all that is needed to be legal ... but is it ...?

 

BTW, I have no problem with the details of registration holder and operator being available to the public ... is there a reason I should be concerned?

 

 

[Tomo]

Airport operators not being able to access an aircraft owners details needs to be fixed I reckon.

 

I fly RAA aircraft into Brisbane (AF) on a regular basis, and the first time, they didn't know where to send the landing fee, after a few try's, the aircraft owner eventually ended up with a letter from the airport operator forwarded on by the RAA, from what I understand.

 

After all that rigmarole he rang up the airport operator and told him who he was, and they now have the aircraft in their systems. To me it's stealing if you can't pay your landing fee. Now I know I would call them up (any other airport requiring landing payment) and tell them myself to save the headache on their part.

 

We don't want to be known around as a bunch of annoying aircraft with numbers.

 

 

[David Isaac]

.....We don't want to be known around as a bunch of annoying aircraft with numbers.

Especially if we hide behind anonymity to avoid accountability, that is the very issue RA Aus should increase accountability on to put down any notion that RA Aus pilots and operators are unaccountable. This issue possibly has more relevance given the recent Hume lake incident.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Firstly, lets understand that what is on the RAA web site is not "a Register", but rather a listing of aircraft and their status at the date-time of the export.

 

A "Register" must include every "transaction", historically, so that an aircraft's status can be retrospectively determined at any point in time. Recall that in the Ferris Wheel accident, the ATSB were interested in the aircraft registration, FTF registration and license status some months before the accident. As I indicated at the time, they could not establish that information from a simple listing on the web site, as some suggested had occurred.

 

A spreadsheet is inadequate because it is not subject to auditing or recording of the date that transactions occur. A small organisation may use an MS Access Database with a bunch of queries and reports, but I hope RAA has something more robust, even if MS Access is used as the front end.

 

There should not be any difficulty in updating the web site daily or each time a database write transaction occurs, but as I don't know what IT systems they have I cannot make any specific comment.

 

I do not have any problem with the aircraft details being public, however CASA's register seems to be an anomaly in that car registrations are not public, neither are boats, nor licenses for all manner of things. You can obtain various details of a car including the suburb that the owner has in their address, and whether it has any encumberances as well as to whom, but you pay for that extent of info and usually only do so when doing pre-purchase checks. Anyone who registered a domain name used to have their details in the public domain, but now there are premium services that hide the details and you have to request them specifically, so you have the option.

 

I guess that all my address details are on the Internet in various places, so I don't have a big concern, if they were also disclosed on the RAA Register. The AMSA already has direct access to the RAA Aircraft register including ownership details, for SAR purposes.

 

None of the FTFs would want to become the RAA police force! They have a business to run, however access to aircraft history could assist with giving their clients, purchase advice and assist with condition reporting.