flyerme Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Holly Crap Batman.......took off this morning in the supercat,7am, at around 10-20 ft after takeoff ,My windshields(front sides and back all completly fogged over,it was on the out side and their was nothing I could do?No I could not open door as the roof would blow open and upset aerodynamics,it has a small vent which was already opened. any way I satarted to sweat as I scanned the instuments and continued to climb,looking out the small vent ,I could only see the wing! so i climbed to 1000ft and levelled still in 100% blindness,and I put my hand threy the vent hole and rubbed a small window (left side window and was able to get a rough visual and just as quick as iy came it dissapeared,got a lil fright so made a turn(was now 7 kms out) and headed home,set my approach and descovered my balance issues?if you drop the rev right back and push the nose over she wants to continue noseing and need a lot of back pressure to hole her,but if you level out a bit (say 10-15 deg pitch) she flies centre stick nicely,so set a approach at 10-15 with 3500 rpm and wow..what an awesome lil plane ,Now was going to go up again now suns out but looking out at my super cat ,the window completly fogged again and the door is open,must have its own climate in their? lol.so I will buy some de fogger wax and give it ago? any other suggestions, and has this happened to any one else? Now do I get indourced for instrument flying now?LMFAO:roflmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 went up again ,this time cleaned thw windshields with white vinigar and seemed to do the trick, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Gees flyerme, nothing like getting the blood flowing early in the morning!! Good to hear you had a good outcome to a pretty hairy situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I would be looking for the cause and fix that as well as using vinegar...it's just that I am getting an uneasy feeling about all this Flyerme...please be careful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 I would be looking for the cause and fix that as well as using vinegar...it's just that I am getting an uneasy feeling about all this Flyerme...please be careful! funny! me too. really starting to regret this supercat!!! sure would love an orthority on them to check it all over? should mention have had this happen twice before! in the thruster,if you look at my you tube video of the thruster flight to new runway youll see clearly that on take off from NEW strip the window fogs over! thats NOT the cam ou of focus,its a fogged over wind screen, anyway would appreciate any help with this supercat!surely theres someone out there who can help sort it out? sure sucks financually being a full time carer sometimes. oh well can only do what I can and continue in small leaps antill she sorted,,hopefully sooner than later,unfortunatly I must Now make a very hard descission! Do I sell my pride and joy?(thruster T83) I need to pay out what I owe on the super cat and might have somthing left to fix it up with. hmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I've had it happen in the car, usually in light fog when the windscreen is cold. Check the meteorological conditions at the time, particularly dewpoint, temperature and humidity. It probably takes just the right (wrong) conditions and a cold windscreen. Scary stuff. Good that you thought to use your instruments and that it didn't last long. I use a Shell windscreen cleaner / polish. Never seen anything like it, but have heard of similar close to a snow cloud. *Edit: the product I use is Shell Flightjacket Plexicoat http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/products/lubricants/flight_jacket/cleaning_glass/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 I've had it happen in the car, usually in light fog when the windscreen is cold. Check the meteorological conditions at the time, particularly dewpoint, temperature and humidity. It probably takes just the right (wrong) conditions and a cold windscreen.Scary stuff. Good that you thought to use your instruments and that it didn't last long. I use a Shell windscreen cleaner / polish. Never seen anything like it, but have heard of similar close to a snow cloud. yeh your right!I had already checked and was forcats patchy fog,but theres was none present as I have No door on the hanger a good indication is if my planes are fogged in their,this morning they were clear,I know what causes this after speaking with mt Pa, what happens is inside my cockpit on the ground the air temps are equal and as I lift off from groundthe aie becomes cooler, but my cabin temp is warm and widsceen cool so fog(condinsation)builds quicly on the widow and when the cabin temp matches outside it defogs and becomes clear,the problem is inadequet ventilaion, as the thruster has NONE and the supercat(worse) has a small side vent which creates a low pressure. so need a smaller vent in the front to allow air in and the bigger side vent to exhaust,should equalize pressure diff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I've used Mr Sheen for many years inside and out and have never had any fog-over problems. It sounds like your windscreen/cockpit had warmed up a bit, and you flew into cooler air after takeoff, possibly causing the fogging. Or the other way round, screen was cool and you flew into warm air. Either way sounds like you need better air flow onto your screen, or into the cockpit generally. Reminds me a bit of skydiving west of Sydney years back, you would freefall for 30 seconds from 8-10 thou then descend into a warm air layer which would instantly fog over the goggles !....usually right at opening time, very character-building when trying to find the open handle (ripcord).......................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 If it's a humid situation use motorcycle defogging stuff. Only cat's have nine lives. Make your own luck. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 ...what happens is inside my cockpit on the ground the air temps are equal and as I lift off from groundthe aie becomes cooler, but my cabin temp is warm and widsceen cool so fog(condinsation)builds quicly on the widow and when the cabin temp matches outside it defogs and becomes clear,... Sorry, but that would explain fog on the inside, but not the outside. What creates fog, is warm moist air that is close to the dewpoint temperature for its level of humidity. Upon hitting cold air or a cold windscreen, the air in contact is cooled below the dewpoint and water condenses out as fog. So you possible flew up into warm moist air that was just above its dewpoint. The solution, apart fromapplying anti-fogging agents, would be windscreen heating. If it were possible to vent some warm air from around the engine, up over the outside of the windscreen, that might alleviate the problem. ie. a demister on the outside. If you have seen it on the Thruster too, then I suspect it isn't the aircraft per se, but rather the specific conditions that would appear to occur in your vicinity. P.S. Now I'm on the PC, I've looked up the windscreen product I use and updated the previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Sorry, but that would explain fog on the inside, but not the outside.What creates fog, is warm moist air that is close to the dewpoint temperature for its level of humidity. Upon hitting cold air or a cold windscreen, the air in contact is cooled below the dewpoint and water condenses out as fog. So you possible flew up into warm moist air that was just above its dewpoint. The solution, apart fromapplying anti-fogging agents, would be windscreen heating. If it were possible to vent some warm air from around the engine, up over the outside of the windscreen, that might alleviate the problem. ie. a demister on the outside. If you have seen it on the Thruster too, then I suspect it isn't the aircraft per se, but rather the specific conditions that would appear to occur in your vicinity. P.S. Now I'm on the PC, I've looked up the windscreen product I use and updated the previous post. yep your right,it was warm humid air hitting my cold winsceen bit like when you breath on glass..it happened in the thruster both on take off from hear at sherlock and 30mins later from take off at peake 16kms away..i suspect it may have somthing to do with both strips are at bottom of ridges.? it also expains my turbulant air here 95% of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boingk Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Sounds about right. I'm the other extreme - cloud on ground. Going into Wollongong from Goulburn last week for a solo nav exercise I was confronted with a cloud height of 3000ft and a ground height of not much less! Had to pick a gap and make the 10ktm call while in a 500ft/min dive over the drop-off to get cloud clearance... hairy stuff. - boingk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 ... Had to pick a gap and make ... Not "had to" ... you chose to do it. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Yeh I must say,its made me a lil nervy taking off now... last flight had me sittin at end of runway burning fuel as plucked the courage to take off...please dont fog over...please dont fog over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Why would you make the decision to put yourself in a situation that you thought was seriously uncertain and likely to be very dangerous? Fix the problem, or have a plan for coping with it. You shouldn't have an anxiety level above the heightened awareness of what's going on around you, that one should have when taking to the air. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Why would you make the decision to put yourself in a situation that you thought was seriously uncertain and likely to be very dangerous? Fix the problem, or have a plan for coping with it. You shouldn't have an anxiety level above the heightened awareness of what's going on around you, that one should have when taking to the air. Nev ,had a plan and 99% sure had fixed prob but still that 1 % chance it may accur again?,soloution:1= made airvent in front wind screen and made side air vet larger,2=put de fogger solution on winscreens prior to flight.3= put a terry towling glove on so I can put my left hand threw vent and clean front and side screen while sitting in normal position,..tested with breath and hair dryer and all good but still ,after somthing like that it plays on your mind.....also the plane is still in testing stage ,which everdently is not going well..but thats for another post..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Well, you've really done it all. You lose forward vision with misty rain anyhow. It's a big deal when you have other problems as well. Take it easy and good luck. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Wait until you experience flying along and fog developes from nowhere. It does not roll in it just appears almost instantly all around you. Can't wipe that off the windscreen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 Wait until you experience flying along and fog developes from nowhere. It does not roll in it just appears almost instantly all around you. Can't wipe that off the windscreen. hmm No thanks,I hope never to see fog of any kind on the screen again... but a fog appearing from know where! now thats scarey..!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boingk Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Not "had to" ... you chose to do it. Indeed - I held clearance and flew South until the cloud cleared (the 'gap') and proceeded when safe. No way I want to endanger either myself or anyone else by doing something dangerous. On a lighter note, the return trip was brilliant! I found myself with a tailwind doing 105kt in the good old C150M at cruise power. - boingk EDIT: Fog appearing from nowhere... yeah that'd get a few hairs up for sure. Guessing you just climb out of it? What is the procedure there for VFR anyway - I know theres a 1000ft vertical separation but what about climbing out of forming fog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 somthings are not covered,in raa.I had not come across or even thought of "fog overs".but their clearly out their so how do we deal with them? especially in the case of the" out of know where fog over"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Good topic, flyerme. I can't recall much in AUF/RAAus circles. You could cover the way it forms. (There are different types) and the way you deal with some situations, where you have it. One particular trap is when the area appears lightly fogged from the air and you can see OK down through it but when you go to make an approach because of the slant angle, you can see bug*er all. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 EDIT: Fog appearing from nowhere... yeah that'd get a few hairs up for sure. Guessing you just climb out of it? What is the procedure there for VFR anyway - I know theres a 1000ft vertical separation but what about climbing out of forming fog? Below 3,000' AGL it is "clear of cloud", not 1,000' separation. Fog does not usually occur instantaneously, so when it starts to form around you, you should have a choice to do a precautionary search and land or to climb above it if you have sufficient fuel to divert to an airfield that is clear. If you are flying in conditions that are conducive to fog, have a full tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 That happened to me many years ago flying around the old Salt Ash RAAF drop zone. Lucky i was flying an old and slow Stolaero. The fog did indeed appear almost instantly. I was heading back to the 2 square mile of drop zone flying about 50 feet above the swampy tea trees that surrounded the area. What do you do? Not much experience at the time. The old Hall ASI jams up with moisture so my main instrument was unreliable. My other only instrument was a ribbon for slip and skid. Crash comics were my main diet back then and all the stories i was recalling ended up in grief. Scared? You bet i was. Only thing i could think of was to select a power setting to keep the Stolaero in hands off trim, keep light on the stick and rudder and hope i was still headed toward the centre of that drop zone. No compass. Half mile to go would take a minute or so then go a bit more before slowly pulling power and decend with eyes wide open. Picked up the grass at about ten feet and put it down, switched off and thought about it. 10 minutes later the fog cleared and i found i was almost in the centre of the drop zone. Rule 1, don't panic. Rule 2, use fear for motivation, Rule 3, put bucket of luck in esky before leaving home. IE Sh#t happens. deal with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I was a bit lucky myself. First circuit of a planned night flying session, the oil and rope wick lights had just been put out and the Instructor told me to do a solo circuit. Turning crosswind I noticed the wing clearance lights looked as if I was in milk. FOG. Thought of doing a turn and landing back the way I'd come. NO too dramatic and unfamiliar. likely to lose it. Decided to fly a "timed circuit" on the basic instruments, and came out at about 400' ft on final, lined up. No further flying that night. This is one of the reasons I don't believe in the concept of "Night" VFR. You couldn't see the fog till you were in it. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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