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Hadyn Bell

Norfolk Island Savannah S

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Hi All,

We have our Savannah S under construction here on Norfolk Island. I have just returned from Australia where I completed my BRF with Neil at Gofly Aviation in Caboolture. Neil you are an excellent instructor. Had the opportunity to meet with Mark Kyle and discuss his Savannah build, what a wealth of knowledge, thanks Mark.Yes long range tanks fitted so an oceanic flight is on the cards....Plenty of fuel, good weather and lots of communications. No ditching for us!! Thanks for the tips Mr Cleo bachelor of the year....

 

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Haydyn, with the long range fuel tank option you could fly this to NZ, or back to OZ via Lord Howe Island.

 

 

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Norfolk to Kerikeri 903km, more than achievable...Would love to do the trip back down to the "homeland" in the Savannah, otherwise around and around the island we go!! Have been lucky enough to get a flight down to NZ in a 172 and a PC12.

 

 

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G'day Haydn, did your endorsements get processed mate? We had a beautiful Savannah sunstroke this afternoon at Caboolture. Hope you've got all the inspiration you need now to forge ahead with your build.

 

Cheers for now.

 

 

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Hi All,

We have our Savannah S under construction here on Norfolk Island. I have just returned from Australia where I completed my BRF with Neil at Gofly Aviation in Caboolture. Neil you are an excellent instructor. Had the opportunity to meet with Mark Kyle and discuss his Savannah build, what a wealth of knowledge, thanks Mark.Yes long range tanks fitted so an oceanic flight is on the cards....Plenty of fuel, good weather and lots of communications. No ditching for us!! Thanks for the tips Mr Cleo bachelor of the year....

Back to the construction, what stage are you up to?

 

 

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Back to the construction, what stage are you up to?

Wings, flaps & ailerons, elevator & horizontal stabilizer completed. Last night completed the mod to the stabilizer that Mark showed me, fitting the stiffener under the outer joins between the skins, wow what a difference. Would like to get the rudder and vertical stabilizer finished this weekend so we can get into the fuz. I have also been sifting through Marks (and everyone else) many pages of great info looking for paint information as we are keen to get some paint on the completed parts, or at least primed (remember we are surrounded 360 by slat air!!) I am favoring PPG or Altex systems, both wet on wet so that should save quite some time...Otherwise REALLY enjoying the build, definitely one that will be crossed off the bucket list!!

 

 

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G'day Haydn, did your endorsements get processed mate? We had a beautiful Savannah sunstroke this afternoon at Caboolture. Hope you've got all the inspiration you need now to forge ahead with your build.Cheers for now.

Great time to ask as it turned up yesterday with all endorsements on it. Thanks once again for the excellent service.

 

 

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Wings, flaps & ailerons, elevator & horizontal stabilizer completed. Last night completed the mod to the stabilizer that Mark showed me, fitting the stiffener under the outer joins between the skins, wow what a difference. Would like to get the rudder and vertical stabilizer finished this weekend so we can get into the fuz. I have also been sifting through Marks (and everyone else) many pages of great info looking for paint information as we are keen to get some paint on the completed parts, or at least primed (remember we are surrounded 360 by slat air!!) I am favoring PPG or Altex systems, both wet on wet so that should save quite some time...Otherwise REALLY enjoying the build, definitely one that will be crossed off the bucket list!!

Great to see the progress so far.

 

It's a difficult choice in a number of ways so I was wondering why you chose to build the S rather than the XL?

 

 

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Great to see the progress so far.

It's a difficult choice in a number of ways so I was wondering why you chose to build the S rather than the XL?

I keep reading in the forums "S" for smooth..... We were happy to get the "latest" shape. I think its a little easier on the eye.

 

 

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Hi Hayden

 

On the next savannah I would use PPG and their white etch prime then go straight over the top with colour....if you really want to be sure though there is a etch that you need to paint with BEFORE you assemble all the parts so you paint every single part with it. I believe its a 2 pack etch I will find the name for you. There is a Sav up in Darwin for the past 6 or 7 years and it was built here by Bill Grieve he did you this system when he built it and he speaks to the owner regularly and there is not any corrosion at all on it even in such harsh environment with heat and moisture and salt up there. Its called "something" Chromate so every part is totally painted in this then you paint over the top same as the PPG system. I was great to meet you the other week and keep us informed here please with photos of your build etc...I am sure Hank will appreciate it too

 

Mark

 

 

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I keep reading in the forums "S" for smooth..... We were happy to get the "latest" shape. I think its a little easier on the eye.

And a little more complex in the fuslage frame, takes maybe a one to two days longer to build the rear fuse. If you want the Smooth I still think filling the rivet heads before painting is more important than the shape. I have always liked the shape of the S ever since the first photo arrived.

 

 

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And a little more complex in the fuslage frame, takes maybe a one to two days longer to build the rear fuse. If you want the Smooth I still think filling the rivet heads before painting is more important than the shape. I have always liked the shape of the S ever since the first photo arrived.

That's an interesting idea. What substance should be used to fill the rivet heads?

 

 

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Hi Hayden

On the next savannah I would use PPG and their white etch prime then go straight over the top with colour....if you really want to be sure though there is a etch that you need to paint with BEFORE you assemble all the parts so you paint every single part with it. I believe its a 2 pack etch I will find the name for you. There is a Sav up in Darwin for the past 6 or 7 years and it was built here by Bill Grieve he did you this system when he built it and he speaks to the owner regularly and there is not any corrosion at all on it even in such harsh environment with heat and moisture and salt up there. Its called "something" Chromate so every part is totally painted in this then you paint over the top same as the PPG system. I was great to meet you the other week and keep us informed here please with photos of your build etc...I am sure Hank will appreciate it too

 

Mark

Hi Mark,

 

"Zinc Chromate" is the primer I think you are looking for. It is the std type of etch primer used in the aviation industry that I have seen over the years. Mark there is a lot of conflicting info out there re the priming of the internal parts and it gets a little confusing sometimes. Anyway as one wise person has commented in your forum in the early stages, just use all the information and make the best decision we can... The main thing to look out for if etch priming internal parts is that some etch primers have an time limit as to when the primer / top coat has to be on. The PPG system advised to me is the "Delfleet Evolution". The Etch P/N is F3963 Anti-Corrosion Etch Primer. F3975 2K-primer, then the 2k top coat. The etch is a very thin light coat. I am also waiting on the Altex paint info to turn up as this is another wet on wet system that is specifically designed for alu and I think its considerable better priced than the PPG system. Unfortunately that may be the deciding factor as what ever paint system we go with will have to be sea freighted in, and at $500 per cubic meter to get the freight here may be worth it the saving. This is also one of the main reasons we have fitted the aux fuel tanks, as dismantling and sea freighting our sav off the island will not be cost efficient, flying our Sav off the island is now a real possibility. The Altex wet on wet paint system is used a lot in the marine industry on alu boats but also has a solid background in the aviation industry. We will also be using the ACF50 / Corrosion Block spray in our Sav. I use it a lot here on Norfolk in my workshop. It was nice to see Gofly's Sav dripping with Corrosion X when I did my BFR....

 

 

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That's an interesting idea. What substance should be used to fill the rivet heads?

Not aware of any product being used to fill rivet heads?? Just something to vibrate out!! There are a few commercially manufactured aircraft that use the same riveting system and I haven't seen any rivets filled in those.

 

 

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And a little more complex in the fuslage frame, takes maybe a one to two days longer to build the rear fuse. If you want the Smooth I still think filling the rivet heads before painting is more important than the shape. I have always liked the shape of the S ever since the first photo arrived.

One or two days extra for the fus build, I can deal with that.... 14000 rivets to be filled, might give that a miss, LOL

 

 

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Hi Hayden

 

It wasn't zinc chromate it was something else I will ring Bill and find out.....I didn't fill my rivets either...deemed it way too much work for just a cosmetic effect...you can't see the rivet holes standing 2 mtrs away anyway

 

 

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Hi Hayden

It wasn't zinc chromate it was something else I will ring Bill and find out.....I didn't fill my rivets either...deemed it way too much work for just a cosmetic effect...you can't see the rivet holes standing 2 mtrs away anyway

It takes a bit of time but think of all those little rivets with the wind whistling in there ears, dear little pots of turbulence. What is a couple of knots between friends anyway, nah probrably not worth it.

 

 

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Not aware of any product being used to fill rivet heads?? Just something to vibrate out!! There are a few commercially manufactured aircraft that use the same riveting system and I haven't seen any rivets filled in those.

I have never seen the avex-style rivets filled in either and I was wondering how that would be done and what kind of sticky and long-lasting, 'goo' would be used for this purpose. Also .....

 

It takes a bit of time but think of all those little rivets with the wind whistling in there ears, dear little pots of turbulence. What is a couple of knots between friends anyway, nah probrably not worth it.

..... I was also wondering about the considerable time commitment to fill many thousands of rivets up. Some of these rivets are internal so it wouldn't be the entire 14,000. The interesting question is how many knots would it add to, say, the cruise speed at 75% power setting without the 10,000+ unsettled and turbulent hollow bits on the aeroplane?

 

In your case, filling them up may mean that (with the extra range produced by your more slippery Sav) you could now fly from N. I. to N. Z. on a set of standard and long range tanks and arrive with a 30 minute reserve. 003_cheezy_grin.gif.c5a94fc2937f61b556d8146a1bc97ef8.gif

 

 

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Hi Hayden

It wasn't zinc chromate it was something else I will ring Bill and find out.....I didn't fill my rivets either...deemed it way too much work for just a cosmetic effect...you can't see the rivet holes standing 2 mtrs away anyway

Hi Hayden

It wasn't zinc chromate it was something else I will ring Bill and find out.....I didn't fill my rivets either...deemed it way too much work for just a cosmetic effect...you can't see the rivet holes standing 2 mtrs away anyway

Hi Mark,

 

Would appreciate the info when you get it, thanks.

 

Looks as though you have had some nice wx of late so I hope you have had a few more flights and starting to get the hours up, and no more teething problems.

 

We spoke about the 72" prop and by the time I got in touch Tom the 68" prop was under way and we now have it here. Anyway we have plenty of strip here and we will be using the std tires supplied with the kit initially. We are only allowed to use the seal over here even though there is plenty of grass.

 

 

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Hi Hayden

 

Its a Altec product and its a epoxy etch primer called Strontium Chromate. You spray a light coat over all parts totally and you can still see through it apparently because its just a light coat then you can paint straight over the top but all parts need to be scotchbrited first and rubbed clean with prepsol before the etch. Bill said to still use the black stuff supplied on the mating faces as that gives to a barrier for any working surfaces. The one he did like that in Darwin does not have 1 ounce of corrosion in it

 

Most of the weather has been crap but this week has been fantastic but I haven't been flying since Monday due to a dreaded sinus lurgy....bloody head colds are worse than the others

 

Mark

 

 

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Another productive weekend on the Sav. Rudder and fin completed, finalizing the building of all the flying surfaces. Will spend the next couple sessions drilling and fitting the tips to the modified mounting strips (Thanks once again Mark). Then a bit of a clean up and we are into the fuselage.

 

When I caught up with Mark a few weeks back he only had 2.5 hours on his new Sav and he was going on about his interest in building another one, and I thought whats wrong with this guy!..... Mark we understand now and even share a little of that passion. What and enjoyable and interesting build this is for a first build, but understanding that we have the fuselage to get our teeth into....

 

 

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Hi Hayden

 

I used 3mm nutserts or rivnuts some call them that to attach the tips to those strip inserts especially the tip that covers the servo mechanical connections so you can easily make trim adjustments. I had to adjust mine twice so it made it a 5 minute job. The fuselage is the longest just make sure when you make the frames you get them around the right way but you need to make sure you get the correct left and right rudder cables in the frames this is determined by the plastic exit plates at the rear. I somehow got mine wrong and had to pull apart the bottom of the frames...I was so pissed at myself at the time. Now I am feeling better the weather is back to being crap again for another week...

 

Mark

 

 

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Another productive weekend on the Sav. Rudder and fin completed, finalizing the building of all the flying surfaces. Will spend the next couple sessions drilling and fitting the tips to the modified mounting strips (Thanks once again Mark). Then a bit of a clean up and we are into the fuselage.

When I caught up with Mark a few weeks back he only had 2.5 hours on his new Sav and he was going on about his interest in building another one, and I thought whats wrong with this guy!..... Mark we understand now and even share a little of that passion. What and enjoyable and interesting build this is for a first build, but understanding that we have the fuselage to get our teeth into....

exclamation.gif.7a55ce2d2271ca43a14cd3ca0997ad91.gif I understand the S fuselage is somewhat more complex than the XL. I'd be really interested how complex you find it, Hadyn. This will be one consideration when I eventually make the XL versus S choice.

 

 

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exclamation.gif.7a55ce2d2271ca43a14cd3ca0997ad91.gif I understand the S fuselage is somewhat more complex than the XL. I'd be really interested how complex you find it, Hadyn. This will be one consideration when I eventually make the XL versus S choice.

It is only more complex in that you have to assemble the frame with the stringers, then hang the side sheets, then fit the curved corner pieces(which are supplied flat), In the XL the side sheets and stringers are the frame to a much greater extent, and you get a big bit built fairly quickly, takes a long time to put all the little bits on the big bit though. The pieces where the curved rear fuselage transitions to the square cabin frame(also supplied flat) are the most engenius piece of design I have seen yet, It was amazing that they fit so neatly, magic Cad program they must use, $300,000 well spent.

 

 

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