bushpilot Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I hope the Forum rules allow this - but I made the followingpost (edited back a bit here..) on the JabiruUsers sub-forum. Thought I'd drop it in here to broaden my access to the brains-trust out there.. Would appreciate any thoughts.. Guys, To better explain my situation: I came down a similar path to Greg A - got my PPL 30 years ago; had a share in Piper Colt for awhile (Good training those flap-less landings...); concurrently into hang-gliding (foot launch) and logged 600+ hours in those over 25 years (with 10 year gap in the middle - when I was being a responsible dad..). Been back into hang-gliding at our farm, withpower-harness, until I had a real bad landing 2 years ago.. Couple of pics. at http://www.clicknetoz.com/inverness/hanging_around.htm (but not of the hard landing!) Since then I have done 15 hours on ultralights (French-made Cosmos) whilst working in the U.S. -and need 5 hours to complete 2-axis training... which I will do here in Oz. And most recently did 1 hour in Jabiru - to see if I could get excited about going back to 3-axis. I have to admit that I still find an enclosed 'conventional' aircraft is a bit isolating and dull - after hanging out there in the elements and steering by weight-shift; it's definitely as close to being an eagle that man is ever going to get.. But the reality is that I am now 52 years young and the body doesn't like hard-landings anymore - common in hang-gliders - nor the cold.. I have a 700m grass strip - with a 3 degreedownhill slope into the prevailing wind (NW); but the high-side approach is over gum trees... 2 other pilots who have flown GA into my strip have chosen to land tail-wind up the slope (no trees on approach..). So in considering which aircraft to buy (it will be factory built - not kit) I guess I am best to go for STOL (rated around 100m TO, 130m L) and sacrifice a bit of cruise.. The other consideration in hangering at home is maintenance and parts availability - and that plays into the hands of Jabiru... So bottom line - my heart says go buy an Airborne Redback http://www.airborne.com.au/pages/ml_redback.htmland pretend to still be a boy - my sensible side says go getsomething with doors anda cabin-heater... Will make finaldecision in next couple of months - but verylikely to fall the way of 3-axis. Would appreciate any other thoughts regarding, in particular, the constraints of my strip, Thanks and cheers. bushpilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Herring Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Hi Chris This forum shows once again it's true value when people such as you turn up. I envy your experience because i considered Hang Gliding some years back and then came up with a whole lot of excuses why i didn't need to do it. Your Farm looks great by the way and thank you for sharing with us. As much as i love the J160 for lots of reasons, the first being Australian and the second being verygood value, and i ccould list plenty of others. With my experience with the Fly Synthesis Storch ( i am instructing in one at the moment)http://www.flysynthesis.com.au/storch.aspperhaps you should consider it. One of the options is to fly with the doors off, which gives you the "outdoor sensation".Also there is a folding wing option. This combined with it's STOL performance and good cross country capability, makes it perfectfor what you seem to be looking for. However having said all that, i am not far off trying a trike with Rob Hatswell of Gawler Microlights as it has appealed to me for some time and maybe after the experience i may have another view. The really good thing about flying todayis that we all have our own individual likes and needs and with such a bigrange of choices available we can make it happen. This Forum Home Page shows a great example of the different types. Above all safe flying and have fun. Best Regards Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Chris, If you're after STOL performance, get yourself a Foxbat. You won't do much better for STOL in a new aircraft. Cruise at up to 85 knots. Can't really think of anything else that will do the job like a Foxbat. Have a friend with one who operates it out of a paddock and he loves it. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I must admit I enjoyed the hang-gliding that I did (250hrs), despite the assorted busted bits, ankles, wrist, face and some bits on the kite as well.. :black_eye: You fail to mention how much you are willing to spend, and if new or second hand. I started ultralighting in a doorless, two stroke LightWing and with the latest flapped, four stroke (even tricycle for those that need training wheels!) version probably cheaper than a lot of imports! Good solid hauler with mid range performance. Check it out... Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 or this Option, the Savannah, 2 seats, STOL, will land in 100 mtrs, cruise at 85 kts, and a cabin heater! :) Ultralights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 Thanks Guys, All of these comments are helpful;there sure are a good range of aircraft available in Australia... including the imports. At face value it seems that the design, spec.and execution of a factory built Jabiru presents very good value - when compared with some of the more 'basic' designs that are out there... In fact, nothing seems to come close at circa $75K fly-away.. The only limitation for me is that I prefer an STOL configuration - and there is no such option on Jabiru.. So from here I guess I need to consider whether to accept a lower spec. aircraft to get STOL, or fix my runway approach; means clearing 5 acres of native gum trees.... and would have to get 'her' permission... Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Hay Rob is that prop spining with no one home???? Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babs1aus Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Well Ill add my bit. I like true short take off aircraft. And warmth. I was involved with hang gliding for many years,yes days perched on a wintery Blackheath escapment arn't for me anymore. I now live in sunny Qd and fly a lovely warm plastic bubble with true short takeoff and landing. Great suspension for the rough rural paddockscomfort and room plus. Yes you cant realistically expect alot more than the 60 to 70 knot range in an aircraft of this type and wing profile however your safety margin on strips is greatly increased guess it ultimately depends on what you realy need to do with your aircraft and not what you think you want.1 hours air time is still one hour. I have a nice 60knot cruise a 28 knot stall ( a real one) a modest climb rate and can quite comfortably fly full fuel and a crew weight of 180kgs. All I can say is try alot of aircraft before you decide as changing your mind after purchase can be costly and still not cure your wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 So Babs - what are you flying?? Any pics? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 hmmm just noticed that! unless hes a very thin italian in the seat. the pic was taken in Italy. not by me. Ultralights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babs1aus Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Here is my aircraft for those who asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babs1aus Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Just for the record the wing span is 10.5 metres wings have a few degrees forward sweep. So its not an optical illusion in the pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted June 18, 2006 Author Share Posted June 18, 2006 Guys, I have made a suggestion (in a new topic under 'General Discussion') that membersdo a basic 'experience & type' post - as this will give more relevance to the many (helful) comments that are made... Would be great if u could contribute, as there are severalcontributions here that have been real useful to me.. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Just re-read your top post, and with a name like bushpilot you really deserve a tough all round plane like a LightWing. There's one advertised in this months RAA mag going for $37,000! (add # 462 p56) You say you have 700 metres but want 100m take off? The LightWing will do this one up, but even at gross it should get off in 150m! With a 912, it will give an honest 75kt cruise, but will do 85 if you don't mind the fuel burn, or faster if you want to fiddle with props (but to the detriment of take-off performance). Motor advertised as done 934 hours, I think the 912 can go to 1200 hours (or more on condition for private use), how many hours do you think you would do a year? Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted June 18, 2006 Author Share Posted June 18, 2006 Arthur - 'bushpilot' only says I live in the bush.. My intentions are to continue with recreational flying in a form.... I'm tossing up whether to go 2-axis weight-shift (my comfort zone in terms of experience - and no issues with my strip) as an interim step (say 2 years), or go straight to GA-style RAA registered - Jabiru or Foxbat or..... My strip in indeed 700m but has trees on the approach into the prevailing wind (NW, modified by a valley). With the result that the Jabiru and Gazelle that have landed there have both elected to land down-wind, up the hill (3 degrees); they had no problem taking off - down-hill into wind. But making tail-wind landings the norm is then restricting dependent on the wind-speed; I dont want to fly away from home in 5 kts and return to find 25 kts - which would make for a pretty quick ground-speed.... Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Herring Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Hi Arthur I totally agree with you about the Lightwing. However i have it on good authority that the machine in question( add #462 ) was so good that ithas been sold to South Australia.A new onewould be nice and good second hand ones appear from time to time. Check out the website. Regards Ed Ed Herring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Pilot Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Just a note about strips, allways land uphill unless the wind is VERY strong (20 knots+). There are no if but's or maybe's for taking off, ALWAYS downhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babs1aus Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Look be very careful with some of the figures being thrown around, takeoff distance is really to a height of 50feet from point of departure. Just getting the wheels off the ground is exactly that. There are plenty of planes that take some time albeit not alot in ground effect before they climb away. So I still believe try heaps before you buy. babs1aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 OFF TOPIC..... G'Day Student Pilot Really like your new avatar! Shows the Piper well. ;) I'd keep that one. Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Update on my original enquiry here: I have had2 GA pilots inspect my strip, and the consensus is that I need to do some serious tree clearing on the approach. So, I have taken all the suggestions into account and gone with the one that suggested I haveboth a 2-axis and a 3-axis. I will do this in 2 stages: Stage 1 - I have just bought an Airtime Redback and will complete my 2-axis training on this http://www.airborne.com.au/pages/ml_redback.html Stage 2 - Clear 2 acres of gum trees before upsizing to 3-axis. At this stage a toss-up between Jab 160 or Foxbat. But keep the trike for fun. Can any of you thathave beencurrent on both 2 and 3 axis at the same time tell me how difficult it is to deal with the opposite-direction control inputs? (A-frame and nose-wheel). Thanks, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I asked that question to Angela from Somersby last week. She regularly flys both. Owns a Sting and a 912 Airbourne trike. Said she that she had no trouble with pitch but had to think aboutsteering on ground. there have also been some pitch reversal accidents by some GA pilots converting to trikes. regards Ozzie if people conentrated on the really important things in life, there would be a shortage of empty airspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I could not believe that the Lightwing was $20K more than the Jabiru when the Jabiru gives you so much more and does not 'balloon' when flaring.:big_grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 does not 'balloon' when flaring. With some of the Jab flying I see, not only do they not balloon, they don't seem to flare either! :ah_oh: Good thing they have a training wheel on the front to stop the prop digging in!! Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 With some of the Jab flying I see, not only do they not balloon, they don't seem to flare either! Good thing they have a training wheel on the front to stop the prop digging in!! Now Now Be nice to Mr Jab Arthur:star: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 All in good humour and fun ha ha:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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