Harryn Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi to all you aviators My name is Harry and I am 66 years of age and have been flying since the 1990's having gained my PPLA licence in the USA and then ontaining further training in my home country of England. I had spent over 300 hours flying flex wing microlights in the UK before crossing the pond to gain a PPL A. I continued flying until 2006 when the costs became too great and yearly medicals were burning a hole in my wallet. I spent last October and November 2014 touring the Australian outback with my Australian mate following the Burke and Wills trail in a 4x4 yute. While we were admiring the "Dig Tree" a group of around 9 individual aircraft arrived and we got chatting to the pilots who were conducting a group tour. We thought what a great idea and so we have purchased a a Rockwell 114 with the intention of touring Australia in July of next year (2015) with extended time in the Kimmberly's. The fun started whent I enquired of CASA what I would need to gain a temporary licence for Australia and spent many an hour going through ASICS requirements, medicals (I had just completed treatment for prostate cancer) and the new maintence requirements for aircraft over 12 years of age (control wires). We also learnt of the crazy requirements for all Cessna aircraft in the general aviation category. Anyway I have over a year to prepare for this trip of a lifetime and came across this association and read some of the threads and thought it would be a great place to learn more about flying in Australa and more especially flying in the outback and the safety precautions we will need to take. Another reason is to learn about how to enjoy the pleasures of the outback and to meet the people who make a living in this harsh environment. I would welcome any help from those of you who have ventured into the outback and also any help in terms of the requirements of gaining a licence from CASA. The big issue is the time it takes to get the ASIC (4-6 weeks) and then to obtain the temporary licence. This means a long extended time, not flying, in Australia. Thanks in advance for any help. Harry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Welcome Harry and all the best for your venture down under. I assume you mean 2016 and not 2015, or maybe you do mean this year? For flying in the outback, you could do worse than have a look at John Gilpin's blog: http://www.stolspeed.com/id/36 I'm sure others here will add their comments regarding the rules and regulations. The Rockwell looks like a nice aircraft. rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi rgmwa. You are right, I meant 2016. I will go and look at John gilpin's blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Welcome Harry, you couldn't have come to a better place,. . .I mean, some of these Aussies have actually FLOWN AIRCRAFT in the bush ! ! ! ! ! Seriously, if you're talking about the Rockwell Commander, well that IS a nice aeroplane Sir. Bit of a weird cruciform tail setup, but I wouldn't hold that against it. They fly quite nicely just like any other aircraft of their size and weight. I've ferried one from the North of Scotland down to the London area in 1992, I had not flown one before, but after five circuits with a competent pilot, it was a breeze. As for requirements in OZ,. . .well you'll have to ask the local aborigines, and I'm sure they will help. I missed out on a trip around Australia a few years ago, when I became quite ill,. . . and have regretted that ever since, two of my friends flew a couple of Weightshift trikes anti-clockwise around the country and had a ball ! ! ! All the best anyway mate. Good luck and good fortune with your tour, Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Many thanks for your best wishes Phil. I am really looking forward to the trip and as it is a trip of a lifetime I really don't want to miss out on the sites and people which is why I am hoping to get as much help as possible on this site. Rgmwa's blog suggestion was really helpful and I found a link to many small airfields within a mile of a roadhouse. Can anyone confirm whether you just need lifejackets when crossing water or whether a liferaft is required when say crossing the Gulf of Carpenteria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Flying anti-clockwise around Australia is recommended because left hand circuits are the norm, just keep Ayers Rock below your left wing tip and you can't go wrong. . Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Cheers Alan but being right handed I am thinking Clockwise but I suppose the weather will play a part in the final decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I am spending many days following Solar Impulse on ww.solarimpulse.com/widget-aircraft and on Youtube on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUQ4khqgyvA. This is a piece of aviation history in the making and just fascinating to watch and listen too live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Cheers Alan but being right handed I am thinking Clockwise but I suppose the weather will play a part in the final decision. Not sure about the rules nowadays Harry, but when I was flying in Australia, the rulebook stated that 50 NM was the maximum planned overwater distance when flying a single engined beast I don't know if that rule still exists. We used to get around that when flying to "Tassie" by "Rock - Hopping" ie, passing over bits of ground sticking out of the water on the way ! The "Gulf" is somewhat wider than 50 Nautical methinks ! I believe you may well also require some special overflight permissions from Aboriginal tribal Authorities up at the North end beyond Cooktown and Cape York Peninsula as well, . .but again, things may have changed. ( Everyone on this forum will know about tht ) Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hi to all you aviatorsI would welcome any help from those of you who have ventured into the outback and also any help in terms of the requirements of gaining a licence from CASA. The big issue is the time it takes to get the ASIC (4-6 weeks) and then to obtain the temporary licence. This means a long extended time, not flying, in Australia. Thanks in advance for any help. Harry One of the ways to do this is to get an AVID. You need either an AVID or an ASIC to hold a pilots license. An AVID lets you get a pilots license to fly a plane but doesn't let you in to the secure area of airports unaccompanied. . To apply for an AVID you do not need to be in Australia so procedure can be: 1. Submit the Application for ARN,AVID and PPL license to CASA from home 2. Wait. 3. Wait some more. 4. CASA will contact the UK CAA to check you have a PPL and then issue you an Australian one. 5. Arrive in Australia. Apply for an ASIC straight away. 6. Do a flight review with an instructor to activate the license. 7. The ASIC will usually arrive faster than the 4 to 6 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recflyer Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hi to all you aviatorsMy name is Harry and I am 66 years of age and have been flying since the 1990's having gained my PPLA licence in the USA and then ontaining further training in my home country of England. I had spent over 300 hours flying flex wing microlights in the UK before crossing the pond to gain a PPL A. I continued flying until 2006 when the costs became too great and yearly medicals were burning a hole in my wallet. I spent last October and November 2014 touring the Australian outback with my Australian mate following the Burke and Wills trail in a 4x4 yute. While we were admiring the "Dig Tree" a group of around 9 individual aircraft arrived and we got chatting to the pilots who were conducting a group tour. We thought what a great idea and so we have purchased a a Rockwell 114 with the intention of touring Australia in July of next year (2015) with extended time in the Kimmberly's. The fun started whent I enquired of CASA what I would need to gain a temporary licence for Australia and spent many an hour going through ASICS requirements, medicals (I had just completed treatment for prostate cancer) and the new maintence requirements for aircraft over 12 years of age (control wires). We also learnt of the crazy requirements for all Cessna aircraft in the general aviation category. Anyway I have over a year to prepare for this trip of a lifetime and came across this association and read some of the threads and thought it would be a great place to learn more about flying in Australa and more especially flying in the outback and the safety precautions we will need to take. Another reason is to learn about how to enjoy the pleasures of the outback and to meet the people who make a living in this harsh environment. I would welcome any help from those of you who have ventured into the outback and also any help in terms of the requirements of gaining a licence from CASA. The big issue is the time it takes to get the ASIC (4-6 weeks) and then to obtain the temporary licence. This means a long extended time, not flying, in Australia. Thanks in advance for any help. Harry Welcome, would love to hear about your trip as it progresses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hi Harry I suggest you need an ASIC, not an AVID, as you will unavoidably be restricted to secure airports in many locations in order to buy avgas. When you are planning your route, use the ERSA (Enroute Supplement Australia) to check each airfield for fuel supplies AND phone the smaller ones to make sure they have stock. Rain closes roads outback. The majority of the Aboriginal communities can be visited but you need prior permission. A phone call gives the latest condition report, too. Inland Australia is dry, except when it rains. It's also bloody hot in summer (can be 50C plus) but the nights can be dashed cold in winter (freezing). Dress appropriately including a broad-brimmed hat. Carry at least 5 litres of water for each POB and basic emergency rations. A good torch, matches, toilet paper (to light a fire), a small mirror, a decent knife and a first aid kit with sunscreen are essential. Usual spares such as alternator belt and a tube for the mains, pump of some sort (I use a small 12 volt job) and a can of green slime are all very useful. A rifle is incredibly useful to get a feed if things go wrong but there are lots of legal barriers to carrying one. Various snakes and bull camels are best to avoid. The country is magnificent...red sands, rocky outcrops, hidden soaks and beautiful ghost gums along the often dry watercourses. This is the country of Namatjira, Jabaldjari and Tjungurrayi, all great desert nomad artists. Northern Australia is either very, very wet or very dry. Temperatures seldom drop below 20C. It has more snakes, and also buffalo and crocs to entertain you. Go far enough and you are in Barramundi country! You are also near the home of Gulpulil, Gaykamangu and Djulibing who are well known indigenous actors. Their life here is less nomadic because of the bountiful supply of bush foods. This country has great jump-ups and broad, fast flowing rivers while the tidal flow on the coast is huge. Wherever you go, if you get stuck then stay with the aircraft. If you have told someone who cares and filed a plan or at least a SARTIME you will be found. Have a fantastic time, Harry. You will remember it for life. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Not sure about the rules nowadays Harry, but when I was flying in Australia, the rulebook stated that 50 NM was the maximum planned overwater distance when flying a single engined beast I don't know if that rule still exists. We used to get around that when flying to "Tassie" by "Rock - Hopping" ie, passing over bits of ground sticking out of the water on the way !The "Gulf" is somewhat wider than 50 Nautical methinks ! I believe you may well also require some special overflight permissions from Aboriginal tribal Authorities up at the North end beyond Cooktown and Cape York Peninsula as well, . .but again, things may have changed. ( Everyone on this forum will know about tht ) Phil Hi Phil That is very useful information. The one thing I don't want to happen is to spend time in the local cop shop explaining why I had not obtained the permissions I need. Obviously we don't have this issue in the UK but as in the US restrictions are becoming the norm to us poor recreational pilots. Anyone else out there know what and where permissions are needed in the top right hand end of Australia and flying across there from Darwin VFR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWF Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 G'day Harry The place to start for information on Converting Overseas Licences to enable you to fly in Australia is on the CASA web site here. There are a lot of hoops to jump through! You will need to: get an ARN, have a medical valid in Oz, pass an English language test (yes, I know, it is possibly the only language you have but they still want to check that you can understand 'Strine', 'Chinglish' and ATC talk, etc.) undertake an aeroplane flight review CAO 20.11 gives the rules for flights over water and the carriage of life jackets and life rafts - and also other stuff. In a single engine aircraft an approve life jacket is required for each occupant when the aircraft is outside gliding distance from land, and a life raft is required if going more than 100miles over water. I would suggest you go around the Gulf of Carpentaria rather than across all that water. There are quite a few interesting places to see around that coast and nearby anyway. A good air law and operational procedures reference for VFR pilots is the VFR Flight Guide. ERSA (En Route Supplement Australia) is a required document (each issue valid for 3 months only) which, amongst other things lists Registered, Certified and Military (and some other) airfields but there are a lot of local government and private strips not listed there - and you will probably want to visit many of those places. So you will need to get the AOPA airfield directory and/or the Country Airstrip Guide (for each state you visit) - they (CAGs) now have a web site too. ERSA and other operational documents can be found and downloaded here. Other publications you may find useful are ON TRACK and OUT-N-BACK. A lot of pilots are now using EFBs, iPads or Tablets with OzRunways or AvPlan installed, to assist with flight planning and navigation. Let us know where you plan to visit and the brains trust on this forum will very likely be able to assist with local knowledge, advice and alternative options. Happy planning. DWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 G'day Harry The place to start for information on Converting Overseas Licences to enable you to fly in Australia is on the CASA web site here. There are a lot of hoops to jump through! You will need to: get an ARN, have a medical valid in Oz, pass an English language test (yes, I know, it is possibly the only language you have but they still want to check that you can understand 'Strine', 'Chinglish' and ATC talk, etc.) undertake an aeroplane flight review CAO 20.11 gives the rules for flights over water and the carriage of life jackets and life rafts - and also other stuff. In a single engine aircraft an approve life jacket is required for each occupant when the aircraft is outside gliding distance from land, and a life raft is required if going more than 100miles over water. I would suggest you go around the Gulf of Carpentaria rather than across all that water. There are quite a few interesting places to see around that coast and nearby anyway. A good air law and operational procedures reference for VFR pilots is the VFR Flight Guide. ERSA (En Route Supplement Australia) is a required document (each issue valid for 3 months only) which, amongst other things lists Registered, Certified and Military (and some other) airfields but there are a lot of local government and private strips not listed there - and you will probably want to visit many of those places. So you will need to get the AOPA airfield directory and/or the Country Airstrip Guide (for each state you visit) - they (CAGs) now have a web site too. ERSA and other operational documents can be found and downloaded here. Other publications you may find useful are ON TRACK and OUT-N-BACK. A lot of pilots are now using EFBs, iPads or Tablets with OzRunways or AvPlan installed, to assist with flight planning and navigation. Let us know where you plan to visit and the brains trust on this forum will very likely be able to assist with local knowledge, advice and alternative options. Happy planning. DWF Hi DWF Wow thanks for such a concise list and helpful links. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do but then I have plenty of time. The one pain that you didn't mention was the ASIC requirements. The problem with this for overses applicants is they like you to be in the country when applying but it takes up to 4 weeks to obtain all the information you require. If you think about all the costs associated with sitting around for 4 weeks this is an expensive undertaking. I am taking two visits to try and overcome this. I have already obtained a ARN, doctors certificate and proved I can speak English (we have to do this is England also) so it is just the flight test once all the other paperwork arrives that I need. I have Ozrunways which is a fantastic piece of software as long as you have an internet connection. My 4x4 trip in the outback showed that it is not always possible to get that but you can predownload 99% of the info. Many many thanks for your info Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Hi DWFWow thanks for such a concise list and helpful links. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do but then I have plenty of time. The one pain that you didn't mention was the ASIC requirements. The problem with this for overses applicants is they like you to be in the country when applying but it takes up to 4 weeks to obtain all the information you require. If you think about all the costs associated with sitting around for 4 weeks this is an expensive undertaking. I am taking two visits to try and overcome this. I have already obtained a ARN, doctors certificate and proved I can speak English (we have to do this is England also) so it is just the flight test once all the other paperwork arrives that I need. I have Ozrunways which is a fantastic piece of software as long as you have an internet connection. My 4x4 trip in the outback showed that it is not always possible to get that but you can predownload 99% of the info. Many many thanks for your info Harry Thats why I suggested getting an AVID in my earlier post. You can have both an AVID and an ASIC. You can apply for an AVID from overseas which then lets you apply to CASA convert your license. The time for CASA to process the paper work can be long (longer than 4 weeks) because they need to get confirmation from the UK CAA that you do hold a license. This way you can get all of that paperwork out of the way prior to being in Australia. The ASIC usually comes back faster if you dont use CASA, perhaps http://www.aviationidaustralia.net.au/index.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Thats why I suggested getting an AVID in my earlier post. You can have both an AVID and an ASIC. You can apply for an AVID from overseas which then lets you apply to CASA convert your license. The time for CASA to process the paper work can be long (longer than 4 weeks) because they need to get confirmation from the UK CAA that you do hold a license. This way you can get all of that paperwork out of the way prior to being in Australia.The ASIC usually comes back faster if you dont use CASA, perhaps http://www.aviationidaustralia.net.au/index.html Hi DWF I missed your point about the AVId. That sounds like a quicker course to take to get the 3 month temporary CASA licence. Many thanks yet again. Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 One of the ways to do this is to get an AVID. You need either an AVID or an ASIC to hold a pilots license. An AVID lets you get a pilots license to fly a plane but doesn't let you in to the secure area of airports unaccompanied. . To apply for an AVID you do not need to be in Australia so procedure can be:1. Submit the Application for ARN,AVID and PPL license to CASA from home 2. Wait. 3. Wait some more. 4. CASA will contact the UK CAA to check you have a PPL and then issue you an Australian one. 5. Arrive in Australia. Apply for an ASIC straight away. 6. Do a flight review with an instructor to activate the license. 7. The ASIC will usually arrive faster than the 4 to 6 weeks. Hi DWFI missed your point about the AVId. That sounds like a quicker course to take to get the 3 month temporary CASA licence. Many thanks yet again. Harry I looked up the application form for the ASID and it requires confirmation of photos and documents by authourised persons but they are all associated with Australia. There appears to be no one acceptable from overseas. The background check has to be completed and it states that the immigration part cannot be done unless you are in Australia at the time which defeats the objective. The AVID also costs Aus$ 182 which is not insignificant if I also then have to pay Aus$ 204 for the ASIC which I will definitely need. I think I will have to just persue the ASIC route. Many thanks Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I looked up the application form for the ASID and it requires confirmation of photos and documents by authourised persons but they are all associated with Australia. There appears to be no one acceptable from overseas. The background check has to be completed and it states that the immigration part cannot be done unless you are in Australia at the time which defeats the objective. The AVID also costs Aus$ 182 which is not insignificant if I also then have to pay Aus$ 204 for the ASIC which I will definitely need. I think I will have to just persue the ASIC route.Many thanks Harry My apologies. It looks like the changes last September now mean that the AVID has to be applied for once you are in australia.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 My apologies. It looks like the changes last September now mean that the AVID has to be applied for once you are in australia.... No Problem all avenues are worth investigating. In my short time looking into this there have been several changes. Same thing happens in the Uk as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Hi DWFI have Ozrunways which is a fantastic piece of software as long as you have an internet connection. My 4x4 trip in the outback showed that it is not always possible to get that but you can predownload 99% of the info. Many many thanks for your info Harry Harry , you do not need an Internet connection for ORunways , but you must have an IPad with a GPS ( either built in or external ) .WIFI only IPads do not have a built-in GPS and require one connected externally .A 3 /4 G iPad fitted with a SIM card and connected to a service provider,may improve the accuracy and speed up the position location . Many use ORunways successfully without a SIM card , but for the few extra dollars connecting to the Internet gives other benefits also ..... sending email, researching accomodation etc. .... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Harry , you do not need an Internet connection for ORunways , but you must have an IPad with a GPS ( either built in or external ) .WIFI only IPads do not have a built-in GPS and require one connected externally .A 3 /4 G iPad fitted with a SIM card and connected to a service provider,may improve the accuracy and speed up the position location . Many use ORunways successfully without a SIM card , but for the few extra dollars connecting to the Internet gives other benefits also ..... sending email, researching accomodation etc. .... Bob Hi Biggles You are absolutely right but I had to learn that the hardway. I bought the IPad mini 3 wifi and only then did I but Ozrunways and then read their webpage which says exactly what you are saying. In reality it is not meant to be used as a primary method of navigation and makes a fabulous planner especially with a wifi connection and NAIPS. Also my traveling partner has an Ipad with the inbuilt gps and sim card connection so between the two of us we should be ok when the time comes. Interesting thing happened today as I was registering on the NAIPS site. It allows you to choose your country when putting your address it but even so only excepts numerical numbers in the post code section. As we also use letters in the UK it won't accept my registering. Shall give them a ring and explain the problem. Thanks for the info Biggles Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 You could try selecting "other " for State and 1234 for postcode . As a last resort you could ring but try the easy way out first . I assume the Rockwell has an emergency beacon fitted ,if not you will need one and have it registered with the ATSB ...... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Sorry Harry I meant to say , "register with AMSA , rather than ATSB " ....... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryn Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 You could try selecting "other " for State and 1234 for postcode . As a last resort you could ring but try the easy way out first . I assume the Rockwell has an emergency beacon fitted ,if not you will need one and have it registered with the ATSB ...... Bob Hi Biggles The Rockwell has an emergency beacon but I will check on the registration. We also have a hand held emergency beacon which we had for our 4x4 trip and we will have that as a backup. I will use my friends address in Aus to overcome the registering problem. Many thanks Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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