VFR into IMC (old lessons and new).

[Garfly]

Just turned up this 1957 film promoting the "AOPA 180 degrees rating" an emergency technique for 'contact pilots' inadvertently un-horizoned.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0-SZJtoNzg

 

YouTube, as usual, leads on to countless other flicks on the topic showing that cloud interiors remain a trap for young - and old - players.

 

Some favourites:

 

 

 

[David Isaac]

Great range of videos. The 1957 one particularly interesting given that method is NOT taught as far as I am aware. I like it though because it simplifies the turn method. The 180 degree turn in cloud concept assumes the VFR pilot is calm and able to make the rate one turn while he has his hands on the stick or yoke and possibly in significant turbulence, and that is unlikely and he is more likely to over control in IMC.

 

I am NOT proud to say that I did it once in C182 between Coonabarabran and Dubbo in the 80s; declared an emergency and lived to tell the story. Id be interested to here Facthunter's opinion on the 1957 video, possibly taught when he learned to fly. I actually like the method.

 

What about the opinions of other commercial pilots on here ... your thoughts on the old method???

 

 

[mkennard]

When they do these tests, wouldn't it be better if they tested the pilots in a plane they are familiar with? I noticed it was a twin and I guess it depends on the panel you are used to as well.

 

 

[Garfly]

Yes, David, I'd like to hear opinions from the pros among us about that, too. In any case, I notice that part of that old-method is to have worked out in-advance power/trim settings that you know will get you close to a level pitch attitude (assuming, I guess, you don't absolutely need to climb to safety first). It then means you need to get hands-off and concentrate only on the rate of turn indicator (not the AH, interestingly, which most a/c would have had back then) and use your feet alone to make that very gentle (half standard rate?) turn.

 

It remains crucial, though, to keep up your (simplified) scan, no less so than in proper instrument flying.

 

The problem for us though is very few recreational aircraft have rate of turn indicators any more (no bat to go with the ball).

 

Sure, needless to say the best cure is always prevention but it's equally needless to say that the vast majority of pilots who have ever got themselves into such terrifying situations had no intention of doing so when they took off that day.

 

By the way, one doesn't even have to take on board those simulator test results if you're of a mind not to. The most persuasive testimony of all, for me, was that young be-hatted, god-fearing, southern gent as he tells of the terror he'd felt- just the day before - when he was sure he was about to kill his whole family. He tells how he'd transitioned to instruments and was sort of managing (he'd have had minimal training) but was absolutely dreading a long 20 minutes in real IMC to the airport he was being vectored to (luckily, as it happened, he found a hole and deliverance). To me, he was totally convincing describing his desperate struggle second-by-second to contradict the almost irresistible urge to follow his gut rather than keep up his instrument scan and believe what he was seeing.

 

 

[facthunter]

David, the "period" is a little after I was trained and during my training to commercial, I did recovery from unusual attitudes on "limited" panel as well as the usual basic IFR flight which actually saved my life when I flew into fog at 500 feet turning crosswind, prior to an aborted intended night VMC period. Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

Thanks Nev,

 

Yes Garfly, in our GA training we were trained to know in-advance power/trim settings that you know will get you close to a level pitch attitude and the best glide etc. We were supposed to be able to revert to those on instinct. The big problem with VFR pilots in VMC is their hands on the yoke and over controlling in the panic of the moment. If the aircraft is trimmed, it will fly relatively stable with small rudder inputs because it is dynamically stable in that configuration.

 

I guess with our RAA aircraft we have a range of instruments from rag & Tube with just an ASI to glass panels more sophisticated that the old GA ACs. Give me steam gauges any day, I still like the fancy stuff but I want the steam backup. The AHI & T&B are ideal minimum instruments even for an open cockpit Rag & Tube; they may save your life one day.

 

 

[facthunter]

The turn RATE needle (gyro) and a reasonably sensitive altimeter are the minimum you can fly on. I haven't included the ASI , because strictly speaking it can be done without and "chasing" it should be discouraged. Minimum panel is challenging and current practice is important. To Navigate you must have a compass also.

 

The 180 degree level turn is to exit the problem. IF you have an autopilot IT doesn't know it's in cloud so flys the plane OK. I know people who have been saved by using one.

 

Awareness of topography (Ground features) in your vicinity is important, (Concept of Lowest Safe Altitude) LSALT, and as has been mentioned total TRUST in the instruments, (not the seat of your pants) is essential.

 

It is a stress creating activity and your performance will deteriorate the longer you have to "hand fly" IFR conditions especially in "rough air".

 

An "Artificial Horizon" replaces the real one for you aircrafts ATTITUDE reference and makes flying the plane less abstract and tiring.

 

You don't fixate on any particular instrument. You should have an effective scan pattern. Set an attitude and note what the plane is doing and then adjust the attitude if needed, just as you would if visual.

 

You won't know where DOWN is so don't think you can feel it. Doesn't happen.

 

After years of considering this I believe some effective minimum training is needed for all pilots. You could get a spray of dirty engine oil all over the windscreen as well as get caught by weather. Nev

 

 

[Garfly]

There's been in the past a fair bit of hostility to AHs being in rec aircraft at all - as if it suggested that the owner had a mind to use it - on purpose. It's a bit like the anti-BRS argument that says having one will make you dangerous because you'll think yourself bulletproof. I don't think that attitude pertains too often.

 

Of course, one ought to have some training in its (emergency) use and one ought to be aware that using one in a real IMC situation is going to be difficult (without, on the other hand, fearing it impossible - otherwise panic will surely take over the show).

 

I reckon there are few among us - not yet taught by experience - who'd be suckered into thinking that keeping control in IMC, even with the instruments and some training, would be a doddle. (Surely not the YouTube fans among us. ;-)

 

But 178 seconds is a long time in accidental IMC; with the right gear and know-how/confidence it may just be long enough to get one back visual and save the day.

 

Spatial disorientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

This article claims that fully 40% of fatal GA accidents in the US result from spatial disorientation in IMC (a good proportion of those pilots actually being IFR rated).

 

 

[AussieB1rd]

From what I understand once in cloud or loss of all visual cues, this is called spatial disorientation and can happen to even the most skilled pilots. Believe this sadly happened to John F Kennedy Jnr.

 

 

[facthunter]

There are some days when there is NO horizon. If you start being a little adventurous you might get into strife in those conditions. Nev

 

 

[Garfly]

A story from (US) Flying Magazine bearing out facthunters last post:

 

I Learned About Flying From That: Asking For Help

 

 

[dutchroll]

I suppose the "old" method would work but heck, if you're going to have a turn rate gyro in your plane, why not just get a modern digital standby AI? The method they show in the video vaguely resembles how we were taught "limited panel" flying, ie, flight with a failed AI. However at the time I suspect it was the best they knew about how to cope with that situation in that era.

 

The big thing about staying in control in cloud is using whatever you have to control a) your bank angle and b) your pitch attitude. A turn needle will give you a hint as to your bank angle, and your altimeter will give you a hint as to your pitch attitude. The VSI has inherent lag, so trying to follow it is fraught with difficulty and danger. An AI of course gives you both the bank and the pitch instantly. The thing to remember is to make the corrections little ones, and to do one at a time.

 

In instrument flying you spend 80%+ of your time scanning the attitude indicator and keeping it in the attitude you want for whatever you happen to be doing (straight & level, 20 degree bank turn, or whatever). Whatever is left of your time is for radially scanning the other surrounding flight instruments and ensuring they're indicating the desired performance, returning to the attitude indicator each time to make any desired corrections. It's hard work and requires intense concentration and scan discipline, but when you first fly an approach in anger and pop out of the cloud with the runway in front of you, it's a pretty good feeling.

 

 

[Garfly]

Yeah, I was wondering that too. The aircraft used in that old movie did have an AH, as most GA planes would have had - and still do, given they're usually set up for IFR. I can only assume that they figured that giving the untrained pilot anything more than one instrument to interpret and one control to move would, all the more surely, end in tears. So AOPA devised this radical hands-off /trimmed out method; the last resort most likely to succeed. The key part of the method is the letting go of the stick, presumably for (still) good HF reasons. It would have been interesting to see the method put to the test in those simulator trials. (First of the videos above.)

 

 

[Garfly]

Another tip I picked up from video bingeing is that, if you are caught out, you can't go half-on/half-off instruments. You've got to commit to the dials, or PFD. That is, the temptation to break off your scan to peer out the window hoping to see something - anything - has to be resisted. Nothing's more perilous in the clouds, they say, than searching for salvation out in the bright white, while inside, you're clinging to, and yanking on, the yoke as if your life depended on it. How could instinct know that whilst, indeed, it does, it's only hands-off that's gonna save us now?

 

 

[facthunter]

My view is to do "some" IFR and be able to recognise the spin and the spiral and know and understand the differences and quick recovery techniques. Learn how to recover from unusual ATTITUDES, visual and Non VMC.

 

Most people if you get slightly away from S&L get really anxious, and will stress. Well you can't fly U /L planes and have a guarantee that you won't get into an abnormal attitude EVER, which if you don't panic and know how to handle will be just another thing you take in your stride and "cope " with. A wind gust or willy willy that hits you just as you are flaring and puts you into a vertical bank at about 20 feet. Wake turbulence or lee side of mountains, downwind of hangars or a line of trees. Small aeroplanes are more susceptible than larger ones, that aren't immune from the problem either. Nev