Guest brentc Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Actually, I believe that this is the case: 912 - 1.2 litre 80hp 912S - 1.4 litre 100hp 914 - 1.2 litre turbo 115 hp Bring on the 916? Turbocharged 1.4 litre! (Just me dreaming - 135 hp?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Quite correct Brent. Interesting to notice that Rotax has a time limit on the available power. 914turbo 115hp for max 5 mins and then throttle back to 100hp. The 912 100hp for max 5 min and then throttle back to 95hp. Still no substitute for cubes..... Regards Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flyer40 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Phil, often as part of certification they run engines at red-line with no oil, (to simulate oil loss) usually with no noticeable significant wear. Are you serious Brent? How long does this test last? I'm struggling to understand this, since I had a race engine that managed to uncover the oil pickup due to lateral g and left me skating on a slick of my own oil and coolant after it exploded almost immediately. The damage to the engine was extensive. Liberated engine parts had even crushed the exhaust manifold on their way out. This was due to a loss of oil pressure for a second at about 50% throttle and 5500 rpm. There was still oil in the bearings, but not at an adequate pressure within the bearings to overcome combustion forces. The resulting metal on metal situation was instantaneously destructive. Coupled with this is the fact that car engines experience most of their wear in the first few seconds after starting before oil pressure is achieved, at idle/low rpm. How do aero engines achieve the ability to run without oil, surely there is more to it than just lower rpm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I am struggling to believe this too. I remember when I was younger my mate had an old Mazda 626 that he used to service himself. He drained the oil one day and forgot to put the sump plug back. Dropped it off the jack, put 4L of oil in (or whatever it was meant to take) and then started it without checking the oil level. Stupid I know, but that's not the point of the story. The point is that it ran for all of about a minute before spitting the dummy and scaring the crap out of all of us at the same time. And this was just sitting in the garage doing nothing but idling. Running at red line while dry? I seriously doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Baphomet Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Then there is the well documented case of the manufacturer of an oil-additive who, to promote the product, added it to the oil of a car in Sydney, ran the car for a few minutes to ensure all surfaces were duly coated, drained the oil and then drove it at highway speeds to Melbourne apparently without destroying the engine. As they say, oils ain't oils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flyer40 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I was aware of that. I have heard that some people considered it a non-scientific publicity stunt, and not a very believable one. On the subject of Suzuki's, I once had a Suzuki car that didn't have a sump and had no oil in the crank case. It had roller bearings on the crank journals and in both ends of the con rods. It was an LJ50, with a 850cc two-stroke engine that made about the same power as a 1500cc four-stroke. It was limited by gearing to about 80 km/h, although I seized it couple of times trying to coax it up to 120 km/h over Alfords Point bridge. But it was so easy to repair it didn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Baphomet ,,,,,,,,,,,I wonder if thats an urban myth ,,,I heard the car traveled to perth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest disperse Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Then there is the well documented case of the manufacturer of an oil-additive who, to promote the product, added it to the oil of a car in Sydney, ran the car for a few minutes to ensure all surfaces were duly coated, drained the oil and then drove it at highway speeds to Melbourne apparently without destroying the engine. As they say, oils ain't oils The same additive also had a holden red motor sitting in a frame idling all day with no sump on the bottom.... ME'S thinking was "Pro ma" ...... Remember seeing it at a farming display I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Then there is the well documented case of the manufacturer of an oil-additive who, to promote the product, added it to the oil of a car in Sydney, ran the car for a few minutes to ensure all surfaces were duly coated, drained the oil and then drove it at highway speeds to Melbourne apparently without destroying the engine. As they say, oils ain't oils Exactly right, I remember an advert for this on TV. I didn't remember the brand from the advert. Have heard of a locally made aircraft engine being tested with no oil for certification purposes too with no noticeable damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I am pretty sure that to get an aircraft engine certified it has to run 10 mins without oil. Have a look on Avweb at the latest "Savvy Aviator" Mike Busch says that most engines fail in the first 200 hours or after maintenance. Back to the forgetting to put the plug in. Remember it was not so long ago that Enzo Ferrari won his weight in champagne by producing 100hp from a litre. But i think it was normally aspirated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighty Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Teflon Yes I remember that experiment. I think they were testing Nulon oil additive at that time, says a lot about the product. Teflon has good lubricant properties (not to be used in wet clutch applications, limited slip diffs etc) however I am not sure what it does to the human body once ingested via our 'you beaut' non stick pots and pans. There has been tests that teflon has been found in liver tissue however the results are still pending on the adverse effects as far as I know. A bit off the subject but still interesting! Knighty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyecast Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hi What a ride. Thanks for all the comments. I think we should wait for Blackhawk's test results on of the 1.4L I certainly understand that the higher the energy load the shorter the life of any engine. The whole process of putting an engine into an AC is a balance, along with many other aspects of building any AC. If the little Turbo Suzi (1.3 or 1.4L) turns out to be a realistic alternative power plant that runs at 75% of the current article that's still 135 - 150 HP. I would like that HP getting off a shot field and from 0 - 2000 feet. We all await further testing and certification. eyecast:hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Blackhawk, and results on your dyno tests yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hi Doug, The test engine is being unloaded in Brisbane today (Wednesday 30.1.08) and we should have it at the Engineers on Monday or Tuesday. It will take about a week to set the engine up on the Dyno and another week to do the testing. So some time around the 18th February we should be able to post the results. In the meantime I will post photo's of the engine being unpacked and also on the test bench of the Dyno. I might even do a video of the engine being tested and do some close-ups of the instrument readings in test conditions. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Cheers Graeme, I'm sure we'll all appreciate your efforts and look forward to the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyecast Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hi All This week I found a 1.3L Suzuki aftermarket turbocharger running 14lb pressure in a Suzuki GTI (Car) that achieves 180HP at the wheels from 3000 to 8000rpm that's been running for a couple of years as an every day drive. Maybe we have a contender for a 2:1 stepdown running at 5500 - 6000rpm running a prop at 2750 - 3000 rpm seems in the power band. :cool:eyecast:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyecast Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 Hi Blackhawk Any joy from the testing Regards :pig::pig::pig: can fly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Hi Eyecast. Nothing to report yet. We've had a couple of hickups with delivery etc. and the Dyno has been booked out solid we recieved it, and we can't get on it till 5th May now. Hopefully we will have the Geared redrive finished by that date as well. Blackhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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