Guest Redair Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Great example. The sewage farm and this thread have a lot in common. I hope you have a taste for it.... if, sorry, WHEN this idea gets off the ground you might just be eating your words:laugh:. Sorry mate, we can't all be perfect!! Redair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 OK, I give in... I can see that I am going to have to divulge ALL of my secret plans to make this work. I really did want to keep some back to ensure that no one else could steal the complete idea, but what the heck... here goes...Now there is no need for electric cable as there will be batteries to run the compressor. Ah but they will go flat, I hear you shout. No, and this is the clever bit... they will constantly be topped up with the use of micro thin solar panels which will cover the upper surface of the wings. Here is my contribution RedOrv Drive the compressor with a 5.5 hp Honda farmer's friend. They have a TBO of about 5000 hrs. I know because I have one transferring water from one dam to another and you can't kill them with an axe (although the compression is getting a bit low @ 4000 hrs, in fact you can't feel it very much but it starts 1st pull every time and runs well), and it thrives on 300 hourly, or more, oil changes (if it is lucky). Assume I can trust you to send regular royalty cheques once this is all up and running. Regards Geoff PS Account and BSB numbers will be PM'd in due course. Flying is simply the art of throwing yourself at the ground without making a furrow off to the side of the runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redair Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Dear Slarti, please accept my humble apologies... after re-reading your comment, I can clearly see that it was not a slight, nor a humour filled smack in the face, but quite obviously a comment of support for my idea. I like the way that you likened the thread to a sewage works... after all, are not sewage works the idea of someone who would no doubt have been riddiculed for making such a daft suggestion, and do not sewage works carry out a vital role in ridding the community of all manner of problems, and can it too not be said that the more advanced sewage works can recycle what they receive and give back, clean safe, drinkable water.... so many benefits to us all. Thank you again for your support:thumb_up:. Redair. PS, Captain, nice idea, but I will have no fuel tanks.... maybe I could run the engine off the solar panels to drive the compressor:clap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Whoa. I have obviously completely misread your intent here. I have read this entire idea as a tongue-in-cheek provocation. The replies seemed to me to also be in this vein. My reply was meant to also be taken that way, and was in no way a slight or "slap in the face". Sincere apologies. I'll crawl back in my hole. Best of luck with the idea. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushcaddy105 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Redair, I just got back from a week away, and am rather distraught to learn that I have previously been flying in Area 51! And why are you wasting so much building time trying to avoid buying a Rotax? - I saw Mick's effort a couple of weeks ago, and he'll soon be flour bombing you while you are still scheming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redair Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'll crawl back in my hole. Ross My good man... as you quite rightly assumed... yes this was an idea I had whilst firmly wedging my tongue into my cheek. My replies to your replies were also those of a tongue in cheek nature. And I must confess that the compressor was just a weight to hold down the engine frame whilst drilling the mounting holes in the firewall, (you see, there was some method in my madness). However, the idea of a jetted airstream over the wing surface was in fact something to get everyone thinking... could it be done? Anyway, I have to go now as a group of several SUVs have just pulled up outside... it looks like they have oil company logos on the side of them... I wonder what they could possibly want with me? I'll just go and aaaaaggghhhhhhh This idea won't work people, forget about it. Yours sincerely, The Oil Companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Keffe, the aoa won't change because the airflow is coming from a fixed point in front of the wing (at least thats how i read his idea).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'll just go and aaaaaggghhhhhhhThis idea won't work people, forget about it. Yours sincerely, The Oil Companies. Another one bites the dust.... Those Oil Companies always get rid of good inventors:crying: Ps. Thank goodness it was only meant to stir the crowd...I was starting to wonder if I should send you some basic fact books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redair Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Keffe, the aoa won't change because the airflow is coming from a fixed point in front of the wing (at least thats how i read his idea).. Spot on sir! Redair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skykid Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hmmm... I like your idea.... But I'm Unsre if you'll get the thrust needed for it... But I have to agree with everyone who has said this, you've made a type of jet. I still say go hard on it. Just the thrust thing has got me having doubts. Not sure if this really applies to this but I've seen a Cessna 150 and other type of aircraft fly backwards. So yeah.. Thanks H :yin_yan: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihosland Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Originally Posted by motzartmerv Keffe, the aoa won't change because the airflow is coming from a fixed point in front of the wing (at least thats how i read his idea).. But you could make it change by adjusting the attitude of the air jets in relations to the wing. You'd get a new AOA but it'd have as much chance of flying as the conveyor belt had of reaching agreement. That is until the force of the air jet stream created enough thrust for the reaction to push the entire thing forward. At that point you'd have a rather inefficient jet aircraft with the wings acting as thrust directing vanes. You would then need other wings that are clear of the jets' thrust to give you aerodymanic lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihosland Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 dynamic dymanic whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redair Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 OK so this started out as a mad idea... but, maybe if instead of a compressor, we were to install a large ducted fan, (a bit like they use on hovercraft) now we all know that hovercraft work... so, why should it not be that a wing with sufficient airflow over it can produce enough lift to rise from the ground? Thrust then only becomes a means to move the craft forwards, and not as we presently have, thrust being required to gain enough airflow over the wing to produce lift AS WELL as provide forward movement. Try this... take a sheet of paper, (A4 say) and hold it by the corners of one end, (I'll let you choose which end to show that I have not rigged this experiment!) with your fingers in such a position so as to present the held edge parallel to the floor. Now assuming that you are standing up, and that gravity in your locality is functioning correctly, the rest of the sheet should be hanging down. Next blow as hard as you can over the top edge. Did not the paper rise due to lift? And yet you are not running like a madman down a runway, nor I expect are you standing on a conveyor belt, (unless you are at the gym). So, we can deduce can we not, that with enough airflow, a static body can be made to rise due to the production of lift. Now, just for good measure, try the experiment again, but this time... blow UNDER the paper.. wow, it still lifts!! So, with that all cleared up, it would then follow that any excess energy left in the airflow would cause an equal and opposite reaction and then begin to move the craft forwards. Secondary ducting could also be employed to take some of the air directly from the fan to be used as thrust, just to keep the doubters happy, buuuuut, and here's the really neat bit... just try the first experiment again, but this time, just as the paper starts to rise... let go... thrust!!!!!! Ha-ha I'm a Guinness. Redair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Did you mean genius? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redair Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Ah to be sure to be sure, I know what I meant! Redair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Did you mean genius? Well he could be a Guinness world record holder...: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 It certainly deserves a glass......or was he referring to his family origins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redair Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Well he could be a Guinness world record holder...: I would have been on Dog Fight, but I typed too quickly and missed an "N" Just wait for the stick I'll get on that one!! Redair. Or should that be RedEire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redleader Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 sounds like a blown flaps idea that has gone to the extreme :) Will just keep the flow energized so therefore affecting cl to go higher and a higher aoa. You may get some localized increased flow rates which affect the v2 part of the equation. Some interesting nasa data on that i remember reading at uni about some of these sort of ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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