motzartmerv Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Howdy. A few weeks ago we had a reporter come and do a TIF with us. She wasn't there to do a story she said, but 2 weeks later she wrote a column about her experience. While the column wasn't bad, she used a few terms like " Paper Mache wings, the old jabiru, lawn mower engine".. The typical un educated view, expressed in a bit of a joke column. I wasn't impressed so i contacted her and asked if she would like to do a proper story. She was appolagetic and agreed to interview a young pilot of ours. This time she got it pretty right, although she did misquote me re the average deaths. anyway, have a read, see what you think. cheers Scan1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 So a microlight is basically a "hang-glider with a motor" is it ??? Thats like saying a Sportstar is basically a Lancaster because its got wings and is made of the same material. If the quote is accurate, your ignorance about the aircraft has simply replaced the reporters earlier misconception with a different one - I would have expected far far better from you. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Its good she fixed it up for you Andy... Crezzi: Doesn't the wing on top generate lift?, so therefore it is a glider of some sort, and the trike bit does hang underneath the wing with the powerplant on it, so in my opinion it is a hang glider with a motor also... They both use weight shift, do they not? You got me curious now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Whats with the "terrified". They just can't help them selves can they. IDIOTS. Alex may have been a bit aprehensive finding herself alone and taking respability for flying for the first time. She expressed this as " pretty scary once I was up there by my self" and the idiot reporter just had to interpret this as "terrified". Screw it, I'm going to front the idiot reporter myself. I am sick to the back teeth of stupidity. I'll let you know how I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Doesn't the wing on top generate lift?, so therefore it is a glider of some sort How does having a wing on top generating lift make it a glider ? If that were true your drifter would a glider of some sort also ? The fact that a trike uses weightshift control doesn't make it a hang-glider any more than having ailerons, rudder & elevators makes your drifter a 747 ! Hang-gliders don't cruise at 70kts+ and don't have MTOW of (typically) 450kg. The fact that modern trike's do, means that the wing design has to be fundamentally different & stronger. A typical 2-seat trike wing weighs 50kg or more - its hard enough to lift one on your own let alone sprint down a hill with it. A trike is only a motorised hang-glider to people who don't know anything about them but I'd would have hoped that an RAAus CFI would have been better informed (especially if talking to the press). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic36 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Don't think you'll find a cockpit like this on a hang glider - wait on they don't even have a cockpit do they Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 If that were true your drifter would be a glider of some sort also ? If the Drifter weren't a glider of some sort at all, I wouldn't be flying it, it does glide, with something like a glide ratio of 8:1 I think.... Trikes glide at something like a 6-to-1 glide ratio with the engine shut off. So in retrospect it does glide, so therefore is a glider... Please don't think I'm being a smarty pants... I'm just very curious as to how you wouldn't call it a Hang Glider with an engine.... sure it doesn't glide as well, but it does glide all the same... Otherwise it would be a Helicopter... (and they even have some gliding ability) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Talking about articles, good article on page 64-65 of the December/Jan RAAus magazine... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I'm just very curious as to how you wouldn't call it a Hang Glider with an engine Do you tell people you fly a powered glider ? I suspect not because whilst there are similarities and Drifter doesn't drop out of the air with the engine off, it has been designed to perform a very different function. Its the same deal with trikes & hang-gliders John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Tomo, I'm thinking that this might be a sore point. They might look like hang gliders with engines to us but I don't think its a good idea to say it out loud.:peepwall: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Tomo, I'm thinking that this might be a sore point. They might look like hang gliders with engines to us but I don't think its a good idea to say it out loud.:peepwall: Its not really a sore point - I long ago stopped being surprised by how little most pilots knew about anything different to what they flew themselves. Perhaps asking questions rather than making statements (or keeping quiet) would be the ideal solution though ? Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic36 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Tomo, I'm thinking that this might be a sore point. They might look like hang gliders with engines to us but I don't think its a good idea to say it out loud.:peepwall: I think the point is probably about as sore for trikers as when a light GA plane goes down and it is reported as an ultralight and we see fixed wing ultralight flyers arc up. This is what a powered hang glider is:Mosquito Powered Hang Giding Harness Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluey the fly Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 My two cents worth, for what its worth; not trying to start anything but this is my personal view. A parachute is a parachute, which is controlled by lines. A parachute with a motor is refered to as a powered chute. A hang glider is controlled by weight shift, the microlight being discussed is a glider with a motor on it being controlled by weight shift, therefore a motorised hang glider. A 3 axis ultralight could only be refered to as an aeroplane. All of these all have their place in the sky and our individual passions, irrespective of what we call them. :thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Crezzi Trikes really do look like a hang glider with an engine. The wings look the same to the untrained observer, the control system is the same, I flew one once the performance is comparable, ie slow, light and draggy The pilot does actually hang below the wing They look pretty similar, similar wing and shape I seem to recall that trikes did in reality evolve from a hang glider with an engine. I would suggest that you may have been a bit hard on Motzart when he observes the similarities. If I have got this entirely wrong please enlighten me, but I'd say they look like a hang glider with an engine in the same way that a Lightwing looks like a scaled down Maule and a Technam looks like a scaled down Cessna and a Sport Star looks like a FULL SIZED CT4:laugh:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Do you tell people you fly a powered glider ? I suspect not because whilst there are similarities and Drifter doesn't drop out of the air with the engine off, it has been designed to perform a very different function. Its the same deal with trikes & hang-gliders I get you now... though for the regular public I think what Andy said was quite correct, I certainly tell people that! If you say it's a Microlight or Trike, they go, "A what?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Trikes really do look like a hang glider with an engine. . Does this XT912-SST (stutted wing) really look the same as the pic Bill posted ? The wings look the same to the untrained observer, The comment that prompted this thread didn't come from an untrained observer the control system is the same, I flew one once And the control system of your Jabiru is the same as a Lancaster. Does that make it a heavy bomber ? the performance is comparable, ie slow, light and draggy I don't have any handy figures for a HG but they definately aren't 75kt cruise & 450kg MTOW The pilot does actually hang below the wing & you sit at the front of your Jabiru - same as the pilots of pretty much every 3-axis aircraft They look pretty similar, similar wing and shape See above answers ! I seem to recall that trikes did in reality evolve from a hang glider with an engine. And in the same way that 3-axis aircraft have evolved somewhat from their origins in the Wright Flyer so have trikes I would suggest that you may have been a bit hard on Motzart when he observes the similarities. I have watched MM's progression (via these forums) from complete novice to CFI with both interest & admiration & I've honestly got nothing against him personally. If the article is accurate (& he didn't say otherwise) I just think the comment was misinformed & he has let the side down which is disappointing. If I have got this entirely wrong please enlighten me, but I'd say they look like a hang glider with an engine in the same way that a Lightwing looks like a scaled down Maule and a Technam looks like a scaled down Cessna and a Sport Star looks like a FULL SIZED CT4:laugh: So in an interview with the press would you describe your Lightwing as a scaled down Maule ? I bet Maule owners would have something to say about that In any case I think the role that, for example, an Tecnam is designed for is closer to the role of a Cessna than a powered hang-glider is to that of a trike. I'm not going to be drawn by the Sportstar / CT4 comparison though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Im sorry to offend you trikers out there. I have flown trikes, and i do take some offence at being called ignorant. How would you explain the difference in a one line quote over the phone? What she left out of the article was that i said, the microlights are governed by a separate body and have an excellent safety record as well. Also i explained how ultralight's AND microlights are alot stronger in terms of G rating then most airliners. But I think this sounded a little technical for her. So, settle down there fella's, next time i will say its a hang glider with a motor and a seat.;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I get you now... though for the regular public I think what Andy said was quite correct, I certainly tell people that! If you say it's a Microlight or Trike, they go, "A what?" Glad to know I managed to explain myself ! So, given that the unfortunate Yarrawonga accident wasn't a powered hang-glider, would it have been preferable if MM had cited a different example or not discussed specific accidents at all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Sorry mate I've missed the point completely. Yes the jab is like most high wing singles, and yes I have described the Lightwing as like a scaled down Maule. My mate owns a Maule and used the same description. I also sit in the front of my house too, that doesn't make my house a B52, I have no idea where you were going with that. I still recon its not an unreasonable description. Sorry mate I dont understand what your objection is to the referance. I'm not trying to be a smart axse here please explain to me what you see as the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Why not mention the accident,??..the papers mentioned the hell out of it, and called the trike an ultralight. A perfect example of what the article was about, relevant, recent etc... How would you explain the difference to a 19 year old (blonde) reporter, who's knowledge on aircraft comes from a 1/2 hour tif in a jab (which she called a ride on lawnmower with paper mache wing's.) no, seriously, how would you describe the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Im sorry to offend you trikers out there. I have flown trikes, and i do take some offence at being called ignorant. How would you explain the difference in a one line quote over the phone? What she left out of the article was that i said, the microlights are governed by a separate body and have an excellent safety record as well. Also i explained how ultralight's AND microlights are alot stronger in terms of G rating then most airliners. But I think this sounded a little technical for her.So, settle down there fella's, next time i will say its a hang glider with a motor and a seat.;) To be fair I didn't (& wouldn't) call you ignorant. I think I actually mentioned your ignorance about the aircraft which isn't the same thing at all - there are millions of things I'm happy to admit my ignorance about. And I did say IF the article reported you accurately - I've done press interviews myself so I'm fully aware that what gets printed isn't always what you say. TBH I wouldn't have mentioned the Yarrawonga accident & thus avoided the whole problem. Especially since I reckon that microlights / trikes have a better safety record than 3-axis recreational aircraft . BTW there are now probably more of them on the RAAus register than HGFA so its not really appropriate to say they are governed by a separate body Despite my objection to one specific comment well done for trying to promote the sport. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I still recon its not an unreasonable description. Sorry mate I dont understand what your objection is to the referance. To me its akin to describing a Jabiru as self launch motor glider. Look vaguely similar to a non aviator but perform entirely different functions. Though thinking about it, if thats what Jab's really are it might explain why there are so many for sale with more A/F hours than engine . Sorry ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Glad to know I managed to explain myself ! So, given that the unfortunate Yarrawonga accident wasn't a powered hang-glider, would it have been preferable if MM had cited a different example or not discussed specific accidents at all ? No, he had to respond instantaneously to the reporter, and sometimes the big picture gets truncated. Leaving aside the debate which is obviously precious to you, he did manage to get the reporter to accept and write that there were different types of flying machine, so in that local area he has made net progress. It's a bit like someone writing about the good handling of the "little sportscar" and having an afficionado fizzing because she should have said Lotus XV and gone on to explain how it had better suspension arm geometry, a wider track and reduced frontal weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I gave up on reporters and news stations years ago. I mean how many times they get it wrong to right is bull$%#t. I dont worry about to much now.i have seen a picture of a f16 behind the anchor man and the story is about a f18. please ,they must have somone their who knows something about a/c. If not get somone who does. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drifter_driver Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Especially since I reckon that microlights / trikes have a better safety record than 3-axis recreational aircraft . Going by the anecdotal evidence of reported crashes trikes do seems to have higher fatality rate but it will be interesting to find out the actual survival statistics in this regard( of both HGFA and RAAUS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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