Guest Fred Bear Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Woke to read this this morning.Does anybody know if these men are members of this forum? Noticed the scrolling at the top of these forums. Is anybody going out there to assist in searching? The police are urging other pilots to keep away from the Goulburn area so they can conduct a 'professional' search. Let's hope that these men are ok. Info below via police media. 7 January 2007 Police will continue a search for two men and their ultra light plane which went missing late yesterday in the Southern Tablelands. An alarm was raised around 9pm after the two men aged 54 and 65 failed to return to Goulburn airport in their “Sting†ultralight. Both men, who are believed to be experienced pilots and residents of the Goulburn area, were last seen flying over Goulburn Golf Course around 3pm yesterday. Officers were told that the men were expected to go for a short flight but have not returned. Air safety officials have been notified. South Care Helicopter conducted aerial searches for most of the evening. A heat sensing plane was used to assist the search team overnight. The aerial search will resume this morning. Police hold concerns for the welfare of the two men but ask those pilots wishing to assist in the search this morning not to fly in the Goulburn area to enable the professional search teams to fly in that airspace. Anyone who may have seen the aircraft is urged to contact Goulburn Police on 4824 0799 or Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Darren, there is only one user that has listed the Sting as their Aircraft Type here in the forums but we will have to see. If anyone knows anyone in that area please give them a ring and ask them if they saw an aircraft that may resemble a sting late yesterday (Sat) afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David C Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Darren has just phoned me and informed me that an aircraft believed to be the missing Sting from Goulburn has been located by search forces . The aircraft has crashed and there are two deceased persons believed to be the missing crew aboard . I stress that at this time this information although from a very reliable source and backed up by radio monitoring is not confirmed .If this information proves to be correct , it is indeed a very sad day for all , and particularly the families of the deceased . Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mcoates Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 It's a very sad day because the aircraft has just been located and the occupants unfortunately found deceased. The aircraft impacted the top of a hill with the ballistic parachute deployed and was found upside down on rocky ground with heavy tree cover. Both of the occupants were Sting owners so it is not like one person was incapacitated and the other couldn't fly because they both knew how to fly the aircraft. Both were experienced pilots with several hundred hours on the Sting each, they were nice guys and well liked by everybody, unfortunately yesterday just wasn't their day. The conditions were good at the time of the accident with moderate turbulence and clear skies, the aircraft was apparently found intact at the crash site. Thanks go to Aussar (search and rescue) the volunteers and rescuers who assisted in locating the aircraft and comforting the families. Thanks also goes to this website for running a Banner on the top of every page asking for information and assistance from anybody who may have seen the aircraft Saturday afternoon. In this accident the people were found only 8.9 miles from Golburn airport but it would have greatly assisted the search team if the aircraft had been spotted in another location. For your information, the aircraft search area was actually found by using mobile phone technology. Even though the crash site was not in a mobile phone service area they still managed to locate the aircraft by tuning in to the signals from the mobile phones searching for a tower. If any lesson is learnt here I guess it is to leave your mobile phone on when you are flying, just in case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Thanks for the info Michael. Very sad indeed. My thoughts go to those left behind. When appropriate, I'm sure we would all like to know more about what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Michael, Thanks for the info. Unfortunately not a good outcome. Other info when appropriate would also be appreciated. Thoughts with the families of the deceased at this difficult time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Via police media: Plane wreckage located - Goulburn Sunday 7 January 2007 Search parties have found the wreckage of a plane believed to have gone missing late yesterday in the Southern Tablelands. The bodies of two people are on board the plane which was found shortly before 9am today. Police and air safety investigators are being flown into bushland north east of Gunning. An alarm was raised around 9pm yesterday after two men aged 54 and 65 failed to return to Goulburn airport in their “Sting†ultralight. Both men, who are believed to be experienced pilots and residents of the Goulburn area, were last seen flying over Goulburn Golf Course around 3pm yesterday. Officers were told that the men were expected to go for a short flight but had not returned. Inquiries into the exact circumstances leading up to the crash are continuing and a report will be prepared for the Coroner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Pilot Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 It's sounds unusual to me to ask locals and anybody else to stay out of the area. Maybe a local who knows the area could see something out of place that out others wouldn't. What was the reason for such a request? What were the participating Aircraft in the search? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mcoates Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Aussar was concerned because there is a strong ultralight movement in the Goulburn area that there would be a mass of planes out out flying at low level looking down at the ground for wreckage and not where they're meant to be looking and that is out the front. It's also quite common for people to spot wreckage and then try and land in a paddock or field to offer assistance and then get into trouble themselves. Crash sites are usually identified by fixed wing aircraft and then in this case helicopter crews are then lowered into the area for inspection and later ground crews for recovery. Aussar were simply worried about the potential congestion from having so many aircraft in a 30 km diameter area. Representatives from the RAA are currently at the crash site assisting in the investigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Pilot Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I remember more than a few years ago a 172 went missing with four people on board. The weather was crook the first day and then fined up. GA Aircraft were not allowed to search and were actively discouraged from even flying anywhere near the area. After the official search was called off a local took off and had located the wreckage in an hour. Unfortunately the occupants all pershied in the crash. The local pilot was a professional pilot and any of his suggestions during the seach were ignored. Have things changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TOSGcentral Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Hmmm! Not at all sure I like the direction this thread is heading! I have picked up my fair share of bodies and bits of bodies and the whole thing is very sad. But I have also seen, when an accident/crash has been in full view of experienced eye witnesses, that accounts vary greatly and often the true cause was far different from what was assumed. Speculation at this stage is futile. Let the investigation take its course and we will see. If we do not like the results we can debate what investigation standard we would like - and why. Any possible crew incapacity will be uncovered by the Post Mortem examination - CO2. double cardio vascular problem airframe control failure or whatever! Speculation is pointless at this stage and could be needlessly destructive! Aye Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I have picked up my fair share of bodies and bits of bodies and the whole thing is very sad. ...I do it all day everyday. :confused: I do agree. Wait for the investigation to proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Sorry guys for leaving the message across the top of the forums but had to go out with the family for the day and just got back to hear the sad news. What can one say other then all our thoughts are with the family and loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sabre Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 It goes with out saying that our thoughts go out to the families of these two aviators. I was impressed with the steps the Adminstrators took to keep our members informed...well done guys...hope we don't get too many of these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ferret Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 i am sad to hear about the loss of flying friends. we can only wait to see what the outcome is. if the chute was deployed maybe we are looking at an in flight failure and they just followed procedure,and then maybe they passed away due to heart attacks in a stressfull situation ? maybe somthing else happened as well ? co2 poisoning ? we might never know the truth but all i know is that the loss of life is never good and hope we can all learn from our friends experience. i think if we all joined the search we might have had restricted airspace and maybe we would have more incidents on our hands. i feel things like this are best left to the profetionals who train for this everyday i never knew these men but everybody who is involved in aviation are friends and our friends will be missed my depest sympaty's to the family and friends of these 2 pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sypkens Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 My deepest sympathy to the friends and families of those involved. A tragic day for all. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 My Condolences to the family and friends of the people involved. at least they were doing something they loved till the end... as for the search and rescue thing, i believe letting local aviators take part in a search will be helpful, as said before, they have a knowledge of the area that the professional rescuers wont have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Wish they would stop calling it a Stinga but none the less...Via News LTD. RIP guys. Plane crash duo 'never took risks' January 07, 2007 07:09pm Article from: AAP AIR safety experts are investigating an ultralight plane crash that claimed the lives of two experienced pilots near Goulburn in southern New South Wales. A search aircraft found the wreckage of the Stinga aircraft this morning, along with the bodies of two men, identified by locals as John Guthrie, 56, and Neville Smith, 65. Both were said to be experienced and cautious pilots who never took risks, and who had only been out for a short flight in fine weather. The search for the plane began around 9pm (AEDT) yesterday after it failed to return to Goulburn airport. The ultralight was last seen flying over the local golf course around 3pm. Neil Smail, of the Australian Maritime Safety Authority, said the crash site was spotted early today by a search aircraft from the Wollongong-based Australian Aerial Patrol. "They reported it and soon after a helicopter was able to get a medical crew into the area and the medics advised that there were no survivors," Mr Smail said. Former Goulburn mayor Tony Lamarra said both victims would be sadly missed by the local community. "They were good friends of mine ... in the last 52 years we had become like brothers," he said on Sky News. He said the men were both responsible aviators. "They never took risks ... if the weather was not good they would stay put," he said. "It's just one of those unfortunate things ... We don't really know what caused the accident. "I'm really sad because I have lost a couple of really good friends." He said Mr Smith left behind a partner and three children. Mr Guthrie's wife was said to have died eight years ago. Police have not released the names of the deceased. "Inquiries into the exact circumstances leading up to the crash are continuing and a report will be prepared for the Coroner," a police spokeswoman said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Pilot Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 "He said Mr Smith left behind a partner and three children. Mr Guthrie's wife was said to have died eight years ago. Police have not released the names of the deceased." ????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 This simply means that the police have not yet released the names of the deceased. People from the town of Goulburn have obviously made it known to the media who these men are. They are going on the assumption I guess seeing as though they are well known people and have not showed up at home etc etc. Police will not release the names until they are 100% sure of the mens identities. The a/c looks as though it has quite a bit of damage at the front/nose section. Michael, is it possible for the BRS to deploy at crusing speed? If so, what would the effects of doing this be on this a/c? It seems that carbon monoxide poisoning is unlikely as you are often unaware that it's actually happening therefore you would not have the capacity to deploy the BRS (you would not know there was a problem). Again, just speculation on my behalf but I would like to know the effects of BRS deployment at say 100kts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Pilot Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Looks to me like the chute deployed after the first impact. The wreckage was strewn over a couple of hundred metres from the first impact point, the chute was laid out like it hadn't fully opened. The Aircraft appears to have hit in the rocks on the side of the hill then the wreckage continued on dropping pieces, then after the wreck impacted the last time the chute deployed. Is there anywhere we can read RAA reports on previous accidents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi SP, can you post a link(s) to the pictures that you have seen? Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Mike, There was some other pics somewhere... New story below: Pilot visited wife's grave before crash Paul Malone and John Thistleton The pilot of an ultralight plane which crashed near Gunning, killing him and his passenger, had earlier in the day visited his wife's grave on the anniversary of her death.The two Goulburn men, John Guthrie and Neville Smith, were found dead yesterday after their plane crashed in hills 10km north-east of Gunning on Saturday. A former mayor of Goulburn, Tony Lamarra, a long-time friend of the pilot, Mr Guthrie, said they spoke several times each day and he had phoned to say he was going to visit his wife Jennifer's grave before later going for a short flight. The 69-year-old father of two, who was a retired builder and an experienced pilot, was flying a Sting Ultralight which he had bought about 18 months ago. He was with fellow pilot and businessman Mr Smith, aged in his fifties, who had held a pilot's licence for several years and was considering buying a similar aircraft. The plane was last seen flying over Goulburn Golf Course about 3pm on Saturday. Mr Lamarra, also an experienced pilot, said conditions appeared perfect around Goulburn for flying, although he had been told there had been some turbulence. The tragedy would be keenly felt in Goulburn, because both men had outstanding records in Rotary and Apex for community service and in business circles. Mr Guthrie had been a passionate supporter of a push during the 1990s for an international airport at Goulburn and a keen member of the local airport users' group. "He was a lovely man and spot-on with everything he did. He was cautious and an experienced pilot; he never took risks," Mr Lamarra said. The Mayor of Goulburn, Paul Stephenson, said the loss of the two men would be felt strongly in the tight-knit community. The duty officer at Gunning police station, Sergeant Francis O'Brien, said the alarm was raised about 8pm on Saturday after the men failed to return home from taking the ultralight for a test flight. Police contacted the search-and-rescue service in Canberra and an air search of the Goulburn aerodrome area began. The land search involved police from Goulburn, Taralga, Crookwell, Tuena and Gunning. The air search was called off at 2am and resumed at 5.30am yesterday. At about 8.50am the crash site was found and Careflight and rescue helicopters attended. The site was being investigated by NSW Police and the Recreational Aviation Association. Source: The Canberra Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Pilot Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Pelorus, the footage I viewed was on the tele news, last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Thanks SP - I don't have one of those!! I wondered from the footage I've seen, whether the a/c was dragged behind the 'chute after it hit the ground, and hence the debris and destruction. Peak gust at 3.57pm yesterday in Goulburn was 27 knots though in general the wind was 10-12 knots. Still let's wait for the investigators. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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