Final or Finals

[Bidgee]

OK, at the risk of sounding like a pedantic tosser here's the question. When describing the last sector of the approach do you use the terminology "final" or "finals" eg "I was on short final when the idiot in the Bonanza taxied onto the runway".

 

I use "final" because I don't get the plural. I can only fly one final approach at a time.

 

So what do you use?

 

Scott

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Final singular. Idiots plural.

 

 

[shags_j]

lol. That's gold slarti. And damn quick

 

 

[JollyWalter]

Not such a stupid question. I was asking myself the same thing yesterday (ergo I'm not stupid). My student pilot notes clearly label it as 'Finals' on the circuit diagram.

 

Does anyone have a definite answer?

 

Mick

 

 

[shags_j]

See here:

 

Would appear to be "Final"

 

VHF communications — R/T procedures (xhtml w3c 12/09)

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

I was taught 'final' and that's what I say...except a few times when I've been slightly distracted during my turning final call, not concentrating on what I'm saying, and it's come out as 'finals'

 

Love Slarti's answer too :thumb_up:

 

 

[ahlocks]

1. The aircraft has a working radio fitted.

 

2. The operator is using it to make circuit broadcasts.

 

3. The call is an accurate description of the aircraft's position in the circuit.

 

That they are "turning final" or "turns finals" matters? :ne_nau:

 

 

[shags_j]

Not really but it's an interesting point.

 

 

[BecM]

Personally I use Final.. as has been stated the plural finals makes no sense in the context.

 

Just my two cents worth :big_grin:

 

Bec

 

 

[facthunter]

Final.

 

I am a bit surprised where some of these ideas come from. A final approach is well defined in terms of runway alignment and where could there ever be a pluralisation of it. You might go out to perform circuits (more than one) but you can only be on (a) FINAL (approach) or somewhere else. nev

 

 

[ahlocks]

Not really but it's an interesting point.

It is an interesting point Shags but alas, the posturing has already begun.

 

It'll end in tears...

 

 

[Guest Elk McPherson]

The final word on the matter

 

The AIP uses the word "Final", singular, every time.

 

The AIP governs everyone's operations RAAus and GA alike.

 

Cheers :thumb_up:

 

 

[ahlocks]

My finals word(s)

 

Making the call is more important than it's plurality.

 

Cheers! :thumb_up:

 

 

[Bidgee]

Making the call is more important than it's plurality

Sure, but the original post was not about whether you make the call or not. It was about the phraseology used. No, it's not important but I'm curious why people use one or the other.

 

Scott

 

 

[Tomo]

My student pilot notes clearly label it as 'Finals' on the circuit diagram.

Final here...

 

People that call it finals, also say "is" ! eg. "Jabiru so and so 'is' turning base", sounds like you're a radio reporter telling an audience.

 

Doesn't really matter which way you go, but, it is fun discussing such things :big_grin:

 

 

[ahlocks]

Sure, but the original post was not about whether you make the call or not.

True. i_dunno There was also some mention of the word pedantic....;)

 

Aw bugga! its wasn't my finals word after all.

 

 

[Bidgee]

True. i_dunno There was also some mention of the word pedantic....

Ha ha ......and tosser

 

 

[ahlocks]

Ha ha ......and tosser

Wasn't going to go there... (:lol 8:)

 

Cheers! :thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Devils advocate...

 

I like to turn finals ( in that there will be more of them to come) When I turn final, is it because the game really is over, no more 1/4's to play!!

 

Andy

 

P.S there are many radio installations, and headset/mike combinations where it becomes a mute point whether its final or finals because its almost innevitable that I wish they'd "say again"

 

P.P.S stirring aside Ive always used the singular.

 

 

[Guest Sharp End]

OK, I've not googled this, so this is simply my understanding, bearing in mind I started flying in the early 70s.

 

"Finals" comes from the military when doing oval circuits. It's used at the base point in a towered environment, the correct call, assuming you'd done all your checks, used to be "finals, three greens" which was subsequently changed to "finals, gear down and locked". It's plural because the oval circuit turn from base is an amalgam of the base turn and the final turn.

 

In a civilian environment, use the singular "final" as per AIP... although I admit I still tend to use military terminology - it's engrained in my poor old brain!

 

So if you hear "finals" it's probably a throwback to the pilot being ex-military or the pilot being trained by an ex-military instructor.

 

 

[Mazda]

Final. It is "final approach", and you are approaching just one runway, even if there are parallel runways.

 

Actually, I've seen some approaches that could have been to any runway, maybe that was "finals".

 

 

[Mazda]

LOL CFIcare, I can imagine it now.

 

Add that to that terminology that seems to be in use in some places of "turns" and it will be "joining midfields crosswinds", "turns bases".

 

(Maybe people have seen Lord of the Rings a few too many times?)

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Although on reflection I have been to "autobarns"!!

Just as I ve been on lots of finals, but only one at a time

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Actually you all fail....there are potentially two finals...long finals and short finals...so turning finals could be correct, as an initial call when coming off base. I call each individually if appropriate, using the singular for each. IE: 'traffic Ingham 370 long final for 05'....then.... 'traffic Ingham 370 short final 05, full stop landing' .............................................Maj..

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

"'from the weeds we've come !!'"

 

This thread is located right next to the weeds, and from time to time we find ourselves down amongst them

 

Andy