dan3111

Hi Kasper Thanks for the insight in trike wings , though speed would be the driving force behind new models . Much of those wing terms you have said are used in fixed wing aircraft as well . Wash out ,sweep ,and wing area are used in designing any wing for any aircraft and to much of any one of those makes a dog of a machine . Maybe with out making more red tape schools may have to set they own skill levels before they can be trained in the speed wings to reduce risk at low level to everyone involved . The bad crashes in trikes I know of ,have been under 500 in turn not showing off .

One question what are trike manufacture trying to improve next ? Speed ,payload, safety , what area is driving there market (what does there customers want to make them buy) . Something must make them part with 65k plus for a new trike they don,t seem to hold there resale so the trends must change for this to happen .

Just thought would start a thread to bring the off topic decision of the Rockhampton accident , as the victims family and friends are left in piece .

I drove up pass that way a week to the hours after the accident and it wasn,t nice winds then as well .

Geoff you really know how to spoil all the fun with facts we all thought we have found the prefect plane which is the safest never made not a fault in the world . So all going to sell our aircraft and buy and foxbat but I'm a non smoker so mite be a deal breaker . So will have to check with Neil if he smokes . Ah well might have to buy a used car instead .

It's a little harder to compare any GA aircraft unless they have a 912 fitted , all most aero engines have carby at the bottom of the engine and fuel lines lower in cowl as well . Jabs even has low carbys ,but 912 are one of the only engine with carby's and fuel lines in the worst spot for heat after engine stops .

Well storchy is a bit like this you can only lead a horse to water , some people will never change and never see common cents . Like telling a smoker or over weight person to start looking after them selfs and there answer is "I never had a problem with my heath " we all know how that's going to end . So you get to a point of life where you stand back and watch with eating pop corn mind you and let people make there own mistakes after they have been well warned . There is a true saying learn by other peoples mistakes as you don't live long enough to make them all your self . Our sport is not for giving and until you have people die in front of you at you local aircraft you start to respect the sport and the advice given by a lot wiser people . I have been on the field with over 6 deads now and another 10 plus people I knew at other fields on the news.

My custom made Savannah fuel tee has 1 feed in and 4 ports out left and right carby ,return line at highest point at top of tee with 0.3 mm hole and fuel pressure port at back outer of view . All p clamps to cross over tube to support it .

I have now work in the fuel and oil filter industry for petrol and Diesel engine for over 20 years .I have seen some pretty strange fuel line set ups in all types of engine boat trucks cars and some aircraft . The manual of my Savannah is a classic case for what not to do in a fuel system they have changed it on later models still not right but . I would like to state the fact more often then not the person that designed the fuel system of a aircraft don,t even fly . Just work there for a living so don,t have the feed back of other pilots around the place because a job most likely not interested after hours . Good tips and safety wing tanks aircraft should have a small head tank and electric boost pump ,fuel tank return from highest part of engine fuel system and tap on that ,fuel pressure gauge . Now feed lines to and form header tank big as practical then first in line strainer electric pump fuel filter then engine pump then 4 way tee to carbs and return to tank pressure gauge . There needs to be a few taps in the system to shipmates off in case of fire etc . Now where people so wrong is venting ,venting and venting I should say it one more time . There is so many traps to get in between gravity and air pressure or lack of it . In a perfect world wing tanks and head tanks should have a balance vent pipe between them all . I could talk for hours on this as my paying job so will just drip feed you a bit at a time .

I have now work in the fuel and oil filter industry for petrol and Diesel engine for over 20 years .I have seen some pretty strange fuel line set ups in all types of engine boat trucks cars and some aircraft .

That video can be so true and demonstrates just one of the traps of training in any aircraft and a big trap for trike students . The student had just got the instructor at ease with student handling of the aircraft and so he was just looking around like a passenger would .He was lucky to get away with the very late instructors input close call . But trikes and open pusher 3 axis aircraft with nothing to line up aircraft attitude on the horizon so trap for students get lost with speed dropping off . I,m not a instruction but can remember first student flight in a drifter I was up and down like a roller coaster . Once you have a lot of hours under you belt you get the feel and don't need a ASI in a open aircraft . Someone did say there needs to be more training on high speed wings that sounds good but there is also the problem . Training 2 up in a small speed wing can also increase risk to help save lives . I,m sort of a bit of a loss why you would put a speed wing on a trike it,s I bit like trying to put a v8 in a motor bike . There is a bit of a speed limit of open air aircraft to keeping your clothes on ,head sets and leads attached . What speed you gain at cruise you often gain on stall speed as well ,may be they might need to address the maximin kgs per metre of wing to improve safety .

I think trikes have evolved a lot over the last 10 years with the main manufactures moving to 4 stroke engines that set and forget and better materials used . But there is lots of trade offs in doing this the tare weight has increased a lot and bigger arms needed to control the trust of the bigger engine .I don.t fly trikes but over the years have seen the landing distance increase a lot . I remember 20 years a go they used to come in and fare and be stopped in a few yards it use to amaze me . But now its a bit different and speeds have increased between all the models . So more weight gives you better penetration but trade off you need a lot more height to recover from stall .In the early days they only flew in calm morning now they fly in any weather. So my question is what are the limits of any weight shift aircraft and how fast ,how heavy ,and how rough conditions can they be design for .Also one thing that hasn,t been addressed is better protection for pilot as there zero at the moment .

At least the ATSB is having some sort of involvement in the search for answers why we have lost so much Investigation: AE-2016-168 - Assistance to the Coroner - Collision with terrain involving Airborne Edge XT-912, 32-8401, Hedlow, Qld on 25 November 2016

I heard another new fox bat problem a few days ago I thought Savannah were the only ones to have this problem but look out fox bat has it too . Will have to get storchy Neil on to it after he fixes his fuel return .

Johns funeral was last saturday afternoon in Holland park in Brisbane ,as he lived near there . There was well. over well 100 people there and cars where even up the street foot path as so many people and cars parked any way they could fit . The service was so well planned with one of his friends editing a few videos of some of his flying trips that where firmed , and on Foxtel years back ,not to many people could say there flying documentary made it to main stream tv . His wife Julie was so brave to stand up there and give a 15 minute insign into there life's together . Two of his best friends also did the same ,so was good to see he was so well loved . They internet streamed the service to his family in the uk modern technology at its best . They then had do up at the new Caboolture airfield club house . Five of the training aircraft he used had a fly past ( including two of his best mates flying his owe two trikes). Was good to see all his friends chip in and help out as much as they could a lot of them had visited is wife over the last two weeks to lend there support . After any death there people left behind but in this case so close to xmass there is so people that will miss him on a day today base as he was always there at the airfield . Rest in piece John

Maybe they need to nick name those wings (broken arrow) .

Storchy Neil always puts 150 percent effort in his posts :) .

It may be time that casa does some independent testing for them selfs they have gone throw some of the Raa LSA aircraft and struck them off as type approvel finding fauilts . I'm not sure casa is up to speed on any weight shift aircraft or weather they have any interest in micro lights . How ever these aircraft are being used for hire and reward so it ,s in law they be checked for safety when accidents take place . I honestly do think weight shift aircraft have to be tested better then they are at the moment . John was no cow boy and knew more then most about trikes and all the different wings and there down falls . It would be very hard to pin point any cause on some trike accident as they don,t have all the controls and things to check after the fact just a bent wing frame . I would guest a lot of reports would say loss of control pointing to pilot not to some of the other facts and unsolve questions and grey areas . In some cases No matter how good you are and you get in that grey untested area like a lot of sink ,crosswind ,thermal ,spin dive you could get it out of that in weight shift aircraft . There are open and shut cases of pilots showing off but there are also a lot of cases where it has been a total unknown cause just lose of control . . May be someone can shed light on some of the grey areas of trikes . Dan

Neil you have missed the hole consept of forums you are meant to hide behind a computer make anything up and shoot from the hip :) then hide before you are found out , someone obvious didn,t explain the rules of the game to you :) .

Hi Budgie Just asking weather you can find out do we all need to bring some thing ( refreshments) along to celebration of John life at the club house after the funeral . It may help take some of the stress and cost out of any arrangements for the family involved . If you could ask weather they would like that ? Dan

After knowing John only 10 years it is still hard to come to terms he is got from us . I don,t fly tikes but may never have met him if he didn't,t fly trikes beside us . The southeast ale trike group will find it so hard next Saturday to get passed this and will take the shine off a while to came . I will do my best to be there to see him off like hundreds I,m sure will too, as was a friend to so many people .

Now the biggest lesson of all fox bat owners it,s you bum in the seat not the manufacture :) .

My two cents worth :). Fuel locks are much like carby icing ,you just need the right condions for it to bite you . If you are a private owner and you just pull your aircraft out and go for a fly and put back in the hanger to next time you might never have a problem . Now if you are a flying school and the plane does a lot of stop starting between lessons the fuel system gets super heated when engine is shut down . So when you start up for the next flight lesson the chance is the fuel boiled on last shot down if a hot day the chance is great . So return line is a must ,I shut my Savannah down one hot day to work under the dash I heard the fuel boil in the lines even with heat wrapping on them . I tend to run the electric fuel pump for a while before the engine is restarted when hot and still leave it on until after take off . I do find this helps in some cases to reduce problems . Now if you are a fox bat owner just because it is 24 certified doesn't make it safe with out a fuel return . Certified is only a plane that has the paper work in order doesn't make it bullet proof . In fact often it works in the reverse as the cost of making mods on certified aircraft is high so manufacture often leaves alone (with problems ) .

I seconded your last statement , I drove north throw rocky today and was thinking of John as it was a week today when he passed .i couldn't be leave how hot and dry the hole place is up here and not the best as grass brown and death looking . Would be a lot of sink today due to the conditions the guy I'm staying with today at Mackay come to Grief a year and two day before John . He lived after a month in hospital he crash his Savannah due to the hot condions massive sink at the end of his run way .

Golly Geoff you will have to change your profile picture now :)