turboplanner

37 minutes ago, onetrack said:

And the reason quoted by the current Labor Govt for removing that funding for hydrogen powered trucks, is because there was a major shortage of hydrogen-powered trucks available for testing and research work.

I'd suggest the reason there are virtually no hydrogen powered test trucks available, is because virtually all truck manufacturers see no potential in pursuing that market, simply because the economics fail to stack up, and the simple fact that an Australia-wide hydrogen-dispensing infrastructure is non-existent, and isn't likely to be installed, in the foreseeable future.

 

No, it's because we don't leach off Governments but spend our own money, get our own patents, research our own markets, research the supply infrastructure (I was hired to research Australia's Urea (AdBlue) network and then make big money getting a market advantage.)  The company that makes the finished product I showed a few days ago spends billions of dollars per year on research so will not miss the $75 million the Australian government was providing for ALL manufacturers and potential manufacturers. 

The people on this site squeal when there is an accident aircraft labelled "Cessna" but when they are discussing our Industry they don't take the same care to identify the sectors of the industry.

.....n unofficial dumping point for Cummins and Detroit oil changes. Marky was suffering many bruises as the big filters clanked together in the smelly wash. They stood well back from the smell and tried to come up with a solution.

Keen NESSERS may have noted that Turbo now has a part in Outback Truckers. He had to learn extra swear words and make sure something failed on every trip but it's big money when filming with coconut oil on your face to look like sweat.

.....seated and he was now hololering for help, his ample voice amplified even more by the deep shaft.

Dusty O,Track quickly unconscionised the two occupants of the Patrol, but realising he was going to need three of them to pull  Marky up the now stinking shaft, he told Marky to wait and then dragged the Patrol occupants back under the Patrol so he coud pretend to rescue them when they came to..........

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

It's the energy required to electrolyse hydrogen-containing products, such as water, that kills the idea that cheap hydrogen can be mass-produced. Batteries recharged via renewable energy sources are still way in front of any hydrogen idea, and as battery technology continues to improve, hydrogen will continue to fall further behind.

The amount of surplus energy being produced by rooftop solar is now so huge, it has become a problem, that's why State Govts are investing in grid-level storage to soak it up.

How does this grid-level storage work?

30 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

Green hydrogen just means you've used only renewable energy to electrolyse water. Splitting the molecule into one O and two Hs. The problem is, water is actually quite a perplexing molecule. For instance, most materials shrink as they get colder and expand when they get hotter. Water shrinks as it gets colder, to a certain point. Then as it gets even colder, it starts expanding again! It's also quite tenacious. And there really doesn't seem to be any way of not expending a LOT energy to split it. Really doesn't seem to be much reason to make green hydrogen, other than where you might need it for some industrial purpose (chemical for instance) without putting carbon in the air by getting it from fossil fuels (blue hydrogen). 

The tailpipe emission of a hydrogen ICE is zero, just like the EV.

So the comparison is going to need CO2 calcs from the original source to the engine supply point, in the same way that EV might have a Zero tailpipe output, but if it's charged from the grid, there's a CO2 penalty at the power station stack, and then there are different CO2 outputs to make the components and asseble them.

....improvement on what that Indian Rider "Dusty" OTrack had suggested; "INYERFACE!!" over a WA Cop badge.

DOT had waved and wrinkled his shoulders as a Highway Patrol was about to pass and they took the bait and lit up. OT had always imagined himself as a Western Bert Munro, and gave the Indian a whiff of WOT. The rear suspension squatted and the Indiuan came out of the blocks like a Kangaroo Dog catching DOT by surprise. He slid back onto the pillion only to see the nose of the new Nissan Patrols with the 400 hp V8 petrol motors right beside him and about to PIT him with the bull bar, but his trusty Indiuan was up to it and......

......evacuation, they cooled substantially to the Harleys, and that's when they cruised up to a country pub and out the front was bull, newly patched and itching for action on his P8C Harley.

bull started the Harley which backfired a couple of times, got the front wheel up and pulled a doughnut on the rear.

Mahommet gave his WOT and painted a black line through the circle.

Cappy on his pink Suzuki jammed the front brake on by mistake and somersaulted onto his back on the line and circle, and it was on.........

43 minutes ago, onetrack said:

I have to agree that the AUSTRALIAN News Media is largely anti-renewables, but I thought the article was quite balanced, and it reported facts and statements from a wide range of contributors, rather than pursing a slanted opinion line, that followed the media owners anti-green policies.

The simple fact remains that many Green Hydrogen projects have been cancelled in recent times, including "Twiggy" Forrests projects, and the article did report the comment of a consultant who stated (it) "may make more sense to use Australia’s huge renewable generation capacity for the power grid, rather than green hydrogen".

 

I'm not sure what this Green Hydrogen is; smoke and mirrors?

An engine running on CNG (Methane) requires very little change to run on hydrogen. In fact Cummins offer both in the one model engine, the 500 horsepower X15N so the modifications from one to the other will be either external accessories or slight. There's no national refuelling network, so it only suits Back to Base applications within the tank range.

.........and this simple act of kindness caught in the throats of the Muzzies and brought tears to their eyes knowing that someone cared about thme. On election night Malc's team blitzed the commos and there were free flights for all at the airport next day and even the bikie's cafe let them in until.......

........he not only played the latest doof doof or rap songs, but brought to light many unknown facts, like the time Cappy had been caught in the ventilator shaft of the Moorabbin Town Hall at the Launch of Malcolm Turnbull's campaign for PM.........

........flying Drifters whenever the sand is wet enough to avoid getting bogged.

"They take forever to build though" said Don who had problems getting his own aircraft finished.

"How would you like some tariffs" asked Don, seizing the opportunity to milk this little smartass of his riches. 

But others had tried that on the "Big O" before and ........

.........hopped the Redeye (they talk American in WA today) to Washington and told them at the securiy gate that it was O to see Don. The Marines didn't move a muscle and .............

I agree with the others, shut this trash down.

9 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

So  - two attacks where no "civilian" was harmed and you think this is a good reason for arming our general duties police  - I am sorry you feel so strongly about this, it seems to have clouded your judgement.

 

No police were on hand, armed or otherwise, so they could not have prevented what happened. This is the most likly scenario, when crimes are perpetrated. So arming our general duties police, is just putting the population as a whole, at risk, especially those poor mentally disturbed individuals who may come into contact with them, without a measurable increase in crime prevention. In short an ineffective  knee jerk over reaction (check out the origins of arming our police - see any similarities?).

 

Should the criminals be found, the police response is likly to be spearhead by a specially trained and armed unit - not general duties officers. This is the appropriate response to a dangerous situaton.

 

The inescapable reality is, that arming our general duties police has little effect on reducing crime, while exponentially increasing the risk of "legally" authorised gun killings/injury. Might make the paranoid amongst us feel safer  but it's just an illusion - just like ASIC but more dangerous.

 

"you really have no idea what you are on about"

 

Well actually I do - have you lived through a civil war???😈

 

 

 

 

Brendan is trying to bring you up to date with reality; picking on a specific detail is not helpful since the situation also involves slashing more than one person to death, kids who were just going about their business, killing people on the streets and killing each other, hundreds, if not thousands of home invasions over the past 20 years where occupants in their beds are forced to give up the electronic keys to their cars and any valuables, several hundred high speed police chases where police have been injured and innocent motorists have been killed, well known "child" offenders out on bails more than 50 times and so one. We will not be letting our police go into these work situations where they are required to protect us without maximum self protection. After any shooting they are subjected to the same laws as us and have to justify their actions. I live in one of the epi-centres where every one of our local bottle shop attendants have been beaten up or slashed, every one of out fuel outlets the same, for or five Audis/Benzes etc torched to the ground. These children have been offending on bail and the Victorian Government may even fall if they can't get their frantically urgent bail laws to solve the problem.

..........come here as a Traditional Owner of Western Australia, and by the way mate that was a terrific welcoming ceremony you taught us; we'll be welcoming all Mexicans with that soon, but in a bigger and better American way .......................

............two weeks later that Peppermint character Alaine DeBondegue put an ad in the local Fremantke Daily Dock offering his prize 1334 Golden Doubloon a two headed coin, the only one in the world minted by mistake and said to be worth the price of a Jabiru 230.........................

6 minutes ago, aro said:

Maurice Blackburn saying that's what they're doing might be a clue.

Yes.

1 hour ago, aro said:

We don't, although there may be some truth to the idea that CASA wants someone else to blame rather than them. Which is fine, until insurance companies decide they don't want to be CASA's patsy.

Well I'm only guessing here, but we may be looking at the beginning of a PL action in motion.

1 hour ago, BurnieM said:

These lawyers appear to be admiting that their client, his girlfriend, failed in her legal obligation to report her finance to CASA.

We all have it but rarely are people prosecuted for it.

 

I will not comment on the ethical issues with believing he was so dangerous he might kill himself and yet taking limited action to stop him.

 

Yes, RAAus has big liability here but .....

This is just a Public Liability lawyer running their advertising programme the same as anyone else does.

Of course if anyone lifts his head and contributes on the Merits of the case he might get a call to come along and help.

2 hours ago, KRviator said:

Why do we need an alternative to VH- these days?

The US seems to get along just fine without RAUSA. The Brits too, can't see RAEngland getting off the ground. RAAus is a continuation of the AUF that was about before we had the likes of Part 103 and the Class 5 medical.

Simple; We have a unique Public Liability system; they operate under different conditions.

....asked to see it. Eventually, for a satisfactory price he pulled it out and the assembled group gasped; it was the genuine 1337 Spanish Goldoon, one of only two ever minted, and .........

1 minute ago, BrendAn said:

murray goulburn had some milk tankers on trial here a few years back. cng powered. didn't seem very successful. they switched to diesel to go up hills then back to cng when the load eased.

CNG was compressed methane, dropped power by about 10%; that was enough for it to get the thumbs down from most fleets. 

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

The hydrogen fuel cell is a pipe dream economically, and they will continue to be a pipe dream for decades, or even centuries to come. It's simply unviable, there's no other way to describe the system.

 

Some on here may recall Perths hydrogen fuel cell bus experiment, which ran from 2004 to 2007. Three Mercedes-Benz buses fitted with Canadian Ballard fuel cells were purchased with Federal Govt backing of more than $3M.

The W.A. Govt also provided a lot of money and infrastructure to run the buses. Hydrogen was produced from the Kwinana BP refinery and trucked to the Transperth bus depot in Malaga.

This was not a widespread hydrogen distribution system, there was only one point of hydrogen dispensing, which limited the buses movements.

 

The program was called the STEP program (Sustainable Transport Energy for Perth) and the fuel cell buses were provided to multiple countries to see how workable the design and system was. Perth was the only Australian location to use them.

The fuel cell bus global trial was a Mercedes-Benz initiative, designed to see if they could produce the buses as a long-term viable product, globally.

 

The hydrogen fuel cell buses were generally regarded as acceptable, with satisfactory reliability - but overall, operational costs were high, and routes were limited due to lack of an extensive hydrogen distribution system.

The fuel cells were found to need expensive reconditioning every three years, and three year testing of hydrogen tanks was another cost burden. The trial ended with no substantial orders for the fuel cell buses.

 

Full scale production of the fuel cell buses was abandoned when Mercedes-Benz deemed proceeding with the fuel cell bus design was uneconomic. Transperth made the decision to simply convert diesel buses to run on CNG, and about two-thirds of Perth's bus fleet has been CNG-powered buses. The CNG buses have proven reliable, and lower-cost to operate than either diesel or fuel cell buses - although there were early teething problems with bus fires using CNG, because of an initially bad CNG conversion design.

 

Today, electric buses are deemed to be the future of mass transportation. Perth's Public Transport Authority has been operating Volvo electric buses for 2 years now, with great success (18 have been operational since last year), and has recently placed orders for another approximately 130 Volvo BZL electric buses. 

 

The Kwinana refinery (once, Australia's biggest refinery) has since been closed down, so one cheap source of hydrogen locally has been removed. No-one has developed a sustainable hydrogen-production operation in Australia yet, even though we've been promised that "cheap" hydrogen production for over 20 years. No cheap hydrogen, and no distribution system for hydrogen, so where's the benefits of hydrogen engines or fuel cells?

 

https://www.bpswa.org/hydrogen-fuel-cell-buses.html

 

https://www.busnews.com.au/inside-the-mysterious-first-australian-hydrogen-bus-trial

 

https://www.pta.wa.gov.au/news/media-statements/first-year-of-electric-bus-travel-in-perth-a-success

 

https://www.transdev.com.au/press-release/new-electric-buses-for-perth-cbd-routes/

 

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/wheels-turning-manufacture-new-electric-buses-wa

 

The cars and trucks that have gone into production are Hydrogen gas into ICE engines, using capsules to hold the gas. They are not fuel cell.

However in terms of fuel cell vehicles, I was involved in the Bus Industry in 2005/6, evaluating future product so looking closely at the Perth PTA trial with Mercedes Benz fuel cell buses. To give Mercedes Benz credit due they spent a lot of money setting up the buses and at the end of the trial the passengers liked the lower floors and the quiet operation, but at that time the Prime Cost of the chassis was three times the cost of a diesel.

I ruled it out on Prime Cost, without the in-service Fuel Cell vs Diesel Maintenance component, and happen to have 2004 figures here to show the impact, using costing done for another MTT company.

Bus Chassis: Mercedes Benz 0405NH/0500             $198,934.00

Body:                                                                           $225,500.00

Total:                                                                           $424,434.00

Bus Chassis: Mercedes Benz Fuel Cell                     $596,802.00

Body:                                                                           $225,500.00

Total:                                                                           $822,306.00   

Fuel Cell Premium                                                      $397,872.00

Premium x 600 normal Tender Lot                           $238,723,200.00

Even at State Government level purchasing it was clear that $238.7 million up front premium was going to be too big to swallow.

About the same time Honda built a fuel cell Civic  and sent them to the US  where they were offered to customers on a 12 months lease. One of them came to Australia for evaluation, but it all died away. There are still companies trialling them and maybe one day they'll get the magic balance where you put water in the tank, the fuel cell breaks out the H from the 02, and the engine supplies the electricity needed to power the fuel cell.

1 minute ago, facthunter said:

That doesn't address ANY of the Problems I listed.  Nev

Good, they won't have to worry then, they're just going about their business in the 21st Century. Production vehicles are on the road, so just a matter of watching the market share now.

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Hydrogen Leaks and causes Hardening of metals and can't effectively be liquified. Big tanks for not a lot of energy.  High pressures and therefore risky. Nev 

The cells I saw fitted across the car under the boot; sealing was taken out of operator's control. When the module was locked in there was fuel flow to the car. Some smart thinking solved that problem. Next question would be range.