denmit

For my fellow RV-12 builders - seen this? http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=66354&page=11

Sounds like an Vans RV-12 to me. http://www.vansaircraft.com

Brilliant, but I wonder how Aussie local councils would respond to such a Development Application. Negatively I'd expect . . . . "doesn't meet the BCA (Building Code of Australia) requirements" . . . etc, etc

And I'm only a few hours down the Hume in Queanbeyan. In fact, I'm hosting a SAAA Chapter 26 Builders Visit day this Sunday. Probably short notice but your member would be welcome to visit any time by arrangement. Just PM me. I've finished the empennage and rear fuse and working on the wings. The forward fuse and finish kits are ordered (and paid for at a positive exchange rate through OzForex -) and should be on the water in a few weeks. Mitch

And that my friends is why I'm a member of this forum. An interesting and entertaining initial post followed by equally entertaining and informative responses. Thank you all. Mitch:clap2:

A good read Spin - thanks for taking the time. Like you, I often need to travel by air to various state capitals and back to Canberra and the "machine" is, I think, deliberately designed to take any suggestion of actually flying out of the experience. But every now and then I get a window seat forward of the leading edge of the 737 or 767 I'm in and I thoroughly enjoy just being up there, gazing into the white canyons of cloud or down upon mere mortals scurrying along on highways - even after many thousands of hours as an airline passenger and many hundreds as a pilot. It's why we do what we do isn't it - and I bet that young 4 year old will be one of us in a couple of decades. denmit

Sam, from all these (helpful) posts you will have come to realise that recreational aviation in Canberra or close thereto is just not happening. Not that there are no recreational pilots in Canberra and the immediate region - there are hundreds - it's just that there is nowhere to fly from. Canberrans travel to Goulburn, Cooma, Moruya, Cowra, Temora, etc to find a recreational aviation friendly airfield and community. And by "recreational" I mean both VH and RAAus pilots who fly for pleasure, not profit. That is why the Canberra Region Aviators Association Incorporated (CRAA) was formed. The link to our website was in Powerin's earlier post. Our Business Case to Government is within a week or two of being presented to the ACT Chief Minister. He has been quite supportive of providing land and some capital for the establishment of a secondary airfield in the ACT, subject to the operation not needing ongoing financial support from government. We can demonstrate in our Business Case that this is eminently achievable. However, we need our membership to not only be sustained but to grow, demonstrating that a financial commitment from government will in fact generate the economic activity and employment opportunities which we detail in the Business case. This is therefore a long-winded invitation to join CRAA Inc - $50 a year to avoid that activity far more dangerous than our flying - and that is driving on the Monaro or Kings Highways !!! Cheers Dennis Mitchell (Denmit on this site) Honorary Treasurer CRAA Inc

G'day Dazza, my RV-12 started out with all mating surfaces being prepped and primed with rattle can self etching aluminium primer. I've since moved over to EkoPrime primer/sealer from Stewart Systems. This primer (and the two part polyurethane top coat I will be using - I'm painting as I build) is water based, removing all the environmental/health/shipping problems. It ain't cheap (primer is $US120 gal and top coat is $US300 gal) but it is safe and so far sprays on really nicely, even by a mug spray painter. Cheers, denmit

What a disappointment for the pilot/owner/builder, assuming they are one and the same. Both RGMWA and I, as RV-12 builders, will be very interested to hear the reason for the EFATO. Any Forum members with more info - please post. Good to see the airframe can take a substantial knock and not deform though. Cheers Denmit

Spot on Gnarly, I've used Ozforex (a Macquarie Bank subsidiary) exclusively for kits and other lumpy overseas purchases and saved a modest but nevertheless welcome sum. They are good to deal with too. Cheers, Denmit

Great decision Ausmo - this is an extremely well engineered kit. RGMWA has covered off what tools you'll need - the only suggestion I'd make is to ensure the rivet squeezer supplied in any tool kit is manageable. There are a lot of squeezed rivets in a 12, and some squeezers are just to big and heavy to manoeuvre around the tighter spots. I bought a Cleaveland Mainsqueeze with a 3" yoke, which I love - the quality of my riveting became spot-on, meaning I wasn't drilling out rivets which set poorly with the cumbersome ATS squeezer. Cleaveland Tools do an RV-12 tool kit, see their website: http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com. You can download their cattledog, or just look up what you need. The Cleaveland edge forming tool is the best bit of kit out there for putting the little bend in skin edges to make sure they sit flat. For fine work I just bought a pair of 1X magnifying glasses from the local service station for $5 - works for me - but good lighting is still a must-have. I also use 1" and 3" Scotchbrite wheels in a high speed electric drill for deburring long cumbersome items like spars - great for lightening holes too, so I would recommend them strongly. Note also that a 120 degree countersink cutter is necessary for some C/S pulled rivets. I also got three countersink cages and have set them for the correct depth for each rivet type (3/16, 1/8 and CS-4). That way I don't have to reset the depth of cut on the cage and do test countersinks every time a rivet size changes. One problem I can foresee for you will be the sheer volume of components you will have to store and - most importantly - readily retrieve. Vans only allows you 30 days to inventory the kits, afetr which they will not replace anything missing or damaged. I've had bits missing (mostly hardware) from both my kits, so an inventory is a must, meaning you will have to unpack everything to check that it is all there. Once it is all unpacked you will need to put it all somewhere that is safe from damage (particularly skins) but that you can instantly retrieve. I wrote down on the packing list where I stored stuff so that, if I couldn't put my hands on it straight away (frustrating when you're in full-on build mode), I could just look up the packing list for the location. Have fun with it Ausmo, and don't hesitate to put your hand up on this forum or Vans Airforce for assistance. As Crashley says above and RGMWA demonstrates, we are all more than happy to help. Denmit VS, rudder, HS complete, tailcone underway.

G'day again MDK, I also had a good look at the Brumby and flew it with Paul. Nice aeroplane, very nice. That was a couple of years ago when the RV-12 was in its infancy. After all the research, I had 3 manufacturers' kits on my shortlist (which included the Brumby and the Zenith CH650) but the 12 won out as more of the kits became available and the kit quality, relative ease of construction, overall performance and Vans' reputation for sound engineering won out. With over 450 RV-12 kits underway of which 70 odd are flying, the feedback about the 12's flying qualities is uniformly glowing. That is not to denigrate the Brumby at all which I think is a fine aircraft and also very well engineered, it was just that the "12" fitted my mission profile a little better. I agree that your proximity to the factory would be a big factor in your decision. Building your own aeroplane is a journey, and the research into, and ultimate choice of, your flyer is an enjoyable and rewarding part of the trip. Good luck with it and enjoy, DM

Rivet Squeezers No worries rgmwa - you've covered it well for Mathew. Mathew, if you into or about to start building you may want to take a look at Cleaveland's website where you can down load their catalogue: Cleaveland Aircraft Tools They are quite an innovative mob, designing smart tools that make some of the building tasks easier - their edge forming tool is a good example. rgmwa - did I see that you've ordered your finishing kit? Were you getting in while the $AUD is strong or have you really progressed to that stage? Cheers, denmit

I received my Cleaveland Tools "Main Squeeze" rivet squeezer last week. I had been struggling with the cumbersome size and weight of the "ATS" squeezer that came in my builders tool kit so, given the number of squeezed rivets in the RV-12 I'm building, I coughed up the AUD$350 (total delivered) for the "Main Squeeze", a 3" yoke and some more (unneeded) squeezer sets. I put it to work on Sunday squeezing the set rivets in the anti-servo tab. What a difference - light weight, short and easy to maneuver around assemblies, but powerful squeezing action with really good "feel" for the correct set. Highly recommended . . Denmit

Thanks John, and thanks to any others who have taken the minute or so to respond and advance this cause. If you haven't yet done so, please, do it now. Denmit

As canvassed in these forums recently, Access Economics is conducting further investigations for the ACT Government into the viability of, and demand for, a second airfield in the Canberra region. As part of this study they are conducting a survey of pilots, aircraft owners and other interested parties both in the region and of those who may wish to fly here. A copy of the survey is attached to this post and we urge you to take the time to fill it in. The Canberra Region Aviators Association (CRAA) has made significant progress over the past year with respect to a new airfield and have gained the support of the ACT Government along the way. At this stage it is imperative that CRAA members, as well as others outside of our organisation, take part in this survey. A high response rate will demonstrate to the Government that we, as aviators, are keen to secure a positive future for aviation in the region. Furthermore, a new airfield will also provide access to Canberra for those outside the region who currently do not have controlled airspace privileges. The survey is short and should only take a moment of your time to fill in. It can be returned to Access Economics by email, fax or conventional mail as per the instructions on the survey itself. The outcomes of this survey could prove the tipping point for our project and provide the impetus for further progress from the Government. We ask that you participate to show your support and also circulate this to others that may be interested (be they aviators, students, aircraft owners or enthusiasts). Please, respond to the survey and circulate it widely. This is one of the few opportunities that we get to show the Government the level of demand for sport aviation facilities. Moreover, this is one of the rarer moments that an Australian government has actually taken an active interest in our activities. Let’s return the favour and be active ourselves. Dennis Mitchell Treasurer CRAA Williamsdale Airfield Survey.pdf Williamsdale Airfield Survey.pdf Williamsdale Airfield Survey.pdf

No contest - P51D

Like Crashley, I'm building an RV-12. I will register ABE (i.e. VH Experimental) but as said elsewhere, the RV-12 is now accepted by the FAA (and therefore RAAus) as meeting the 51% owner built rule, and is eligible for the Experimental category. I did my research on all the possibilities before committing and found the 12 the best compromise - as everything in aviation is. The Rans S-19 was initially very attractive but reports from the US are that actual built aeroplanes are coming out 20 to 30 pounds over the BEW weight quoted by RANS. That is fuel/range/payload lost and it made the S-19 less attractive performance-wise, but I agree that it is a very good looking LSA and, yes, I would prefer the fuel somewhere other than sharing my space. But the winners for the 12 are Vans reputation for an easily built high quality kit (which has certainly proved correct so far), simple systems, relatively short build time (currently averaging 750 hours), great flying qualities (born out by the pilots of the 60+ currently flying), "plug and play" wiring (up to 200 hours to do it yourself - plus the frustration factor trouble shooting the stuff ups - been there and done that) and good performance (most flying with wheel pants are right on the FAA speed limit at 5200 RPM). Two adults plus some luggage at 115 knots over 300 Nm plus reserves - but still a lively and responsive "around the patch" fun machine - what more can you ask for for $90K? Can't wait to get my bum in it - but am enjoying the building process too. Just get into it - whatever it is you decide on. Cheers, Denmit PS: My current budget for a completed 12 with the dollar at parity is $AUD90K including freight, GST and paint.

The dollars G'day Jay - well, my budget (including GST, freight, paint and standby instruments) was $100K when the dollar was at 90 cents. It will be a good bit less while ever the dollar sits at parity and providing I can get it all ordered and paid for while the $AUD is strong (or more accurately, the $US weak).

Builders Log G'day Ausgee, I'm building my RV-12 under SAAA auspices and will register VH. I'd reckon the RAAus requirements would be the same however, and I have a simple log on my 'puter' using MS Excel with photos inserted which meets the SAAA requirements (backed up to a separate drive nightly). Columns are date - time started - time finished - time cumulative - work completed - remarks. I have another three pages in the spreadsheet to record the costs of those things which will actually fly (e.g. the kit, paint), costs of things that won't fly (e.g. tools or freight) and one for visitors (e.g. Technical Counsellors). Just set up a simple Excel spreadsheet or a table in MS Word, and you'll meet the requirements. See you've started ordering stuff - beauty. Denmit

Thanks for the encouragement Thanks all for your encouragement. The bride tells me I have one free weekend between now and the new year, so the rudder photo will be in 2011. I haven't set up a blog, but have lots of pictures to verify that I built the thing, so happy to post those either on the forum or through a PM. I'll post a photo of each completed section as I go. If you're thinking of building something that is RAAus registerable and actually performs (115 knot cruise 1,000+ FPM climb and capacity for 2 people plus luggage over 300 Nm + reserves), the RV-12 is the go. Cheers and thanks again, Denmit

I finished the Vertical Stab on my RV-12 yesterday. Great kit from Vans; everything fits and fabrication and assembly is relatively straight forward. On to the rudder next. Denmit

New Builder Welcome Ausgee - I'm in Queanbeyan not too far from you and building a RV-12. You'll enjoy building, its a very satisfying pastime (if a little frustrating at times). Like most builders, I have almost every tool known to man so if you need anything, want some encouragement or just want to see a build in progress, you can contact me here. Where will you fly from when you get the Pietenpol finished? Denmit

Bob McIntyre I can confirm Bob's hospitality to visiting flyers to Yamba (Palmers Island). I've flown in there twice, once in my Tobago and once in a borrowed Mooney 201. On both occasions Bob was a most generous host, even allowing me to leave the Mooney in his hanger for three days as he had a bit of space. Highly recommended, and if you have to wait for a passing rain shower, Bob will enthrall you with one of his myriad stories. He's a classic. Denmit

RV-12 Visit Hey Warmbrak, rgmwa should have started building his RV-12 over west - that so rgmwa? I had the privilege to visit crashley's build last weekend. He will be flying in a month or two I reckon. He's done a great job with it, and his panel will be a cracker with a Dynon Skyview EFIS replacing the D180, a Garmin AERA replacing the 495 and an Icom IC-A210 comms/intercom. He's ditched the automotive fuse panel too. Seeing the aeroplane "in the flesh" and so close to completion gave me a real spurt to get on with mine. Thanks crashley. Cheers, denmit