scotsman

The Sling is a really decent aircraft and prior to converting to the dark side I used to fly them regularly in SA. It's probably all doable but dependent on the marketing of the charity and raffle at a wide variety of aviation events. Australia is such a big place that it would be difficult to get coverage of the events in person which makes you quite reliant on electronic sales.

Agree with you Nobody (sounds weird) I think that realistically there are two categories of people; people who buy predominantly for the plane and people who buy predominately for the charity. So selection of the charity is obviously really important. I haven't looked deeply into this element yet as there are so many deserving charities but that being said I am personally after one that looks after kids with serious medical conditions. A Tiger would be an awesome prize. Are they PPL only or do they fit the RA category as well?

Second hand but low hours would you still go for it instead of brand new?

I like the idea of home grown options too as theoretically lesser maintenance costs as parts would not be shipped and a bit of loyalty to the Aussie market would be good. Apart from the Jabi i am really not that familiar with what is out there? In the SA raffle a lot of people do sell the prize airplane as their either can't actually afford the upkeep (it seems to always be a certified one there) and/or they already have another aircraft or financial commitments. Might be difficult to administer a cash option as theoretically the plane would have been purchased at the point in the raffle build up where the ticket sales crossed the aircraft value threshold. I also like the idea of a couple of much cheaper runner up prizes like the aerobatic flips in Jets and Pitts that are offered around the country.

RVs are beautiful machines and seem to hold their value well nice with the comfortable cruising and aerobatics option on the 7. Not relevant to this discussion but have always lusted after an rv8 Ben.

So if I was to organise an aircraft charity raffle (from the discussions on the other thread) a couple of questions and a poll on ticket prices to test your collective appetite.... - what aircraft ($50 to $100k range limit) and why? Quick poll on the thread as well to assess how many tickets you would buy for this type of aircraft if it was offered a $50 per ticket.

Spacesailor I was thinking of something that is either useable to a ppl or ra licences person and probably not certified like a sling, Savannah, jabi, tecnam etc so not a piper or cessna (bit more affordable when it comes to running costs and especially maintenance). I might open up a separate thread to poll the level of interest and what aircraft type people would be most interested in. Bats I think that I could probably get someone to fund the start up costs but I am concerned as to whether there will be enough interest to make the raffle a success with a chunk of money for a specific charity. Probably only one way to really find out.

Hey Sue, agree that it is more attractive but my worry is that to get a 100k plane that you will need to sell a shed load of tickets just to break even and actually contribute something to the charity. Doesn't mean that it isn't possible though. I would definitely want to run an online tickets sales element. On the loss side just like the 310 raffle that Merc referenced just like the SA version if it doesn't meet the minimum tickets sales the purchased tickets would have to be reversed. There would obviously be losses on the licenses, marketing and reversal fees etc which would have to be quantified as best as possible to understand the risk prior to going in. Merc 200 is a chunky amount per ticket but I appreciate that it is a function of the volume which you think that you can sell. I guess that if the price is too high that you get a lot less of the opportunistic/impulse purchases. Sgian Dubh (fellow Edinburgh person) the SA version definitely sells more than 1200 a year as 1200 x R250 = R300k which will not pay for the type of aircraft they raffle let alone donate anything for charity. As Bats said they have sold out before but one key function is ticket sales and advertising at public air shows which boosts the total population of purchasing people outside of existing aviation folk. I am not privy to the amount that they donate to charity every year but if it wasn't material I doubt that they would keep doing it for the past 18 years. Maybe I should be asking them (as it is non commercial and non competitive) how they administer their one and how they got it started. Back to Sue's point at the start Sgian Dubh I think that the prize has to be suitably attractive to get people over the line. I guess I could ask my current employer (one of the banks) to also support it. I use a couple of the audit firms frequently so I could twist their arm to audit it for free. Bats the SA raffle prize aircraft recently has been formally drawn at the Rand Airshow which also generates a lot of 11th hour sales and a bit of hype and the aircraft is 'on display' at the show which makes it really tangible. I have been buying tickets for the last five or six years....no joy yet although Miss SA did sit in the helicopter I was flying (sadly not whilst I was in it). The Airshow scene seems quite quiet in NSW (only been in the country for a year) so I don't know if that would be a potential draw back. Is my perception correct? At least thre should be significantly more pilots in Australia than SA which would help from setting a foundational base of potential buyers.

Really helpful FV, I didn't know that there was state based legislation for it but I suppose that it makes sense. Are you a lawyer by any chance? I am leaning towards a main prize of say 30k of proper accredited training (so even if you have your licence you can go on to use it towards PPL, CPL, or the collection of other endorsements and training add ons that are out there). Seems like it would be simplist option to get it off the ground and because of the lower dollar value for the licence make it easier to 'break even' and contribute meaningfully to the charity. I suppose that it also then becomes attractive to the people who are not already in a aviation circles as an entry point. Also is more inclusive from a fixed wing, gyro, microlight, heli perspective which again makes it more likely to have more tickets purchased.

Hi Nev Training doesn't have to be locality centred as it can simply be like the SA version which is X amount of funds which can be used at any appropriately accredited training place whether for initial licence or advanced training. On the SA version a bunch of people enter it for the charity side and if they win an aircraft that they don't want it doesn't really matter as they simply sell it and use the money towards whatever they want. For example I have stopped fixed wing flying and still enter in SA even though there is never a helicopter in the raffle. I wonder how many active recreational and GA pilots there are in Australia just to get an idea of the potential population? Cheers J

Mmmmm....the maths definitely works out in SA (tickets are 25 dollars each) and in general the aircraft seem to be refurbished certified types that would probably sell for around 60/50k Aussie. They are capped to 12000 tickets but I don't know how many they sell in total. The maths on those numbers with only a fraction of the total sales works out well with a substantial donation to the selected charity. I wonder if it would be possible to sell 2000 to 3000 tickets from the outset. The training element was only included as a potential prize in the last couple of years as more people have started to subscribe to the raffle/charity. Looking back it appears that they started out with a cub as the prize probably when they were building interest it the raffle. Could always raffle the training instead? How much does PPL and the recreational licence training cost these days? I would be nice if it could be done.

Makes sense spacesailor, the big question for me is to whether enough volume of ticket sales could be generated to purchase an aircraft with a decent enough amount of residual money to go to the chosen charity.

Afternoon all Just curious as to whether anyone runs anything similar to the below charity aircraft raffle in Oz. This event has been going for years in South Africa and has been a real success with a bunch of upside for sick kids in fulfilling/funding their dreams that they write in. Aircraft Raffle Do you think that for an LSA/RAA type aircraft there would be appetite and sufficient volume for the numbers to work out for this type of thing over here? Cheers James

I flew with a grade 1 heli instructor who used to do powerline inspections and he took me close up to the high voltage ones in the hover during my training to give me a clear picture of what would likely happen if I clipped one low flying....my word those things are thick like bridge cables....if you clip a blade off one it really is lights out. Most wires are really hard to see and the likelihood here is that he didn't see the wires till he clipped them. During heli training you are taught to look for the poles/supports and not the actual wires.

Recently moved to Sydney but have been renting R44s from one of the flight schools at Bankstown but was hoping (somewhat optimistically) that there might be a private R44 owner out there who is looking for a bit of rental income to support their ongoing rebuild/maintenance costs? Optimistic I know but I was lucky enough to have two private hire options in SA like this before I left to come to Oz....

Spot on Kaz. I've just landed in Oz after thirteen years in SA. slowly but surely a lot of the rural runways have been consumed by townships. Pretty sad really and often involves theft and vandalism of the aircraft encouraging owners to move on. Don't know how Baberton's positioned in this regard though.

Col. Jones you are a star thanks very much for this, really helpful.

Was a great day and looked like only twenty odd GA fly ins and lots of helis in that number too. The noise of the F18 was awesome. Should have flown in but the aircraft I was going to fly in was already hired and flown there by someone else!

Good counsel there litespeed...looks pretty unforgiving but beautiful at the same time. I have been flying helis here and there is little or no chance of finding a downed heli in that environment without a PLB or EPIRB. The prices for PLBs don't seem that bad nowadays so worth the investment.

Hi guys, I'm new to Sydney and am looking at taking a flight out to the blue mountains from Bankstown for a bit of a scenic flight in the near future. Was doing a bit of reading on the blue mountains fly neighbourly guidelines in the ERSA which gives me a 2000 feet agl in a 600meter radius for any routes outside of the prescribed scenic routes and then says that I can get the approved scenic routes from the Park Manager. To save me playing landline phone tag with this chap or snail mailing (no email address given) him does anyone have a copy of the approved/preferred scenic routes that they could mail/pm me?

These low altitude take off and landing manoeuvres have to stop....they are a real killer

Thanks bud. I've been through the fly in guide off their website which was pretty comprehensive. I think the trip with the instructor for familiarity seems like a good idea. Makes life easier when you fighting on the radio and dodging traffic if you are at least vaguely familiar with the field.

Finally received my converted licence in the post. Where are the good venues to fly to out of Bankstown for the proverbially 100 dollar burger? Flying a heli but more than happy to go to airfields just want to expand my horizons. Pretty as it might be don't want to spend the rest of my flying life out here flying the harbour scenic beautiful as it is. Cheers J

Would also like to go. How hectic is the traffic for fly ins at this one? (asking as a low hour PPL).

I have heard so much bad news about the rotorway from owners and forums. If you are putting down that amount of money on a kit you don't want that doubt in the back of your mind. On the other hand the online feedback about the Mosquito and helicycle is pretty positive on average. I think it sadly boils down to the old adage that there is no such thing as a cheap heli. The Ranabot looked nice but also has a chunky price tag too