OneSky?

[dsam]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/161433/thales-selected-for-australian-air-traffic-control-contract.html

 

Anyone have a knowledgeable view about this announcement? What impact will it have on recreational aviators?

 

 

[dsam]

Nobody...? Is it too hopeful that we might gain back some of the excessive military restricted airspace? Or is this just about reckless cost-cutting, and shedding ATC jobs...?

 

 

[rhysmcc]

It's either, and I don't see how it would impact recreational aviators at all.

 

Think of it more as the computer system in the background that ATC use, instead of having 2 different networks like we do now, ASA and RAAF will be using the same network. It should reduce ATC comms workload between ASA and RAAF, there may be a flow on benefit to aviators in terms of reduced delays for clearances etc as the system should have your flight plan and ETA's correct.

 

The current system is nearing it's end of life and so a new system was always on the cards, it's not about saving money (it will actually cost millions and at this stage there isn't any talk of reducing ATC jobs. However it is the reason why Cairns and Adelaide Approach Units are being moved to the Centres.

 

 

[facthunter]

Long overdue I reckon. There was a couple of different procedures, but I can't see it being difficult to overcome. Nev

 

 

[DonRamsay]

I'd dearly like to see a much better system for allocating and de-allocating airspace to the military. The amount of airspace that they've gobbled up would make you think we are in a state of war and under attack from foreign powers.

 

The other thing I'd like to see (in my dreams) is a better way of knowing when Restricted airspace is active or not active. Notams are not the easiest things to read when you don't do it every day. A simple website would be vastly better. Input the R numbers and get instant feedback on their status and likely activation or deactivation.

 

I can't complain a lot about non-military restricted airspace . . . but I will. Especially Coffs Harbour and Williamtown that force us to fly into areas that are not safe. There are more civil flights into and out of Willy but not that many military ones. All the same the traffic is not that hectic that it would be unsafe to fly up Stockton Beach at 500ft. All it would require is for the military not to fly below 1,000 ft. I live on Newcastle beach and often see aircraft below the cliff tops. For the last couple of days a C130 has been flying by low enough to perve on the topless bathers.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Have you tried the Restricted Airspace Briefing on NAIPS? It lists the restricted areas in a table with all the information and colour coded status.

 

Hopefully further down the track we will see the end of civil and military ATC and instead just a combined operation with better access to airspace, however I don't believe it's on the cards yet with this new system.

 

 

[Nobody]

The other thing I'd like to see (in my dreams) is a better way of knowing when Restricted airspace is active or not active. Notams are not the easiest things to read when you don't do it every day. A simple website would be vastly better. Input the R numbers and get instant feedback on their status and likely activation or deactivation.

Do you know that you can get exactly this via NAIPS. You can enter either individual R numbers of a group code for a number of areas eg WMX is Williamtouwn.

It gives this as output. Not always good news but easy to find if you know where to look....

 

 

Edit: looks like I was beaten to it....

 

 

[rhysmcc]

but a pic tells a 1000 words :D

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Thanks Rhys and Nobody. I avoid NAIPS as much as possible but it looks like they've made some steps forwards since I last looked. I usually grab the info out of the OzRunways hook to NAIPS which is quick and convenient and gives the info but not as pretty as this.

 

Still not the most user friendly way of presenting the data but then so very little to do with ASA or CASA ever is. They all need to be taken round the back of the shed and beaten severely with an Oxford English Dictionary - and not the Concise version!

 

 

[Birdseye]

Hardly groundbreaking. The integrated civil/military model existed in the early 70s in the UK and a number of European countries weren't far behind.

 

As to military airspace, one of my first questions on arrival in Perth was "why does a flying club with a couple of dozen aeroplanes dictate where RPT aircraft can go?" At the time the airspace around Perth must have been one of the worst managed and potentially dangerous pieces of airspace in the country, in part due to the congestion caused by the Pearce flying club. Sadly the local ATS staff knew no better and put up with it.

 

Australians may have designed the first CVR and the first DME, but that doesn't mean we have smart people running the country or the airspace.

 

 

[Mark11]

With all the navigation programmes / restricted / military active status should be shown automatically - no need to go to naips and type in each restricted code...

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Why would you want to see every restricted airspace in the country? Type in the AREA code or airspace group and it'll show you all the restricted areas

 

 

[dsam]

Hypothetical RA-Aus question regarding any (RA1) restricted airspace that is KNOWN to be currently Inactive.

 

If a transponder equipped 24 rego aircraft with a Pilot Certificate holder in command wishes to transit this airspace:

 

A) Can they do so under current regulations?

 

B) if so, MUST they contact ATC prior to entry knowing it to be inactive?

 

For the record, I always plan around all Restricted airspace, though I'm just not 100% clear on RA-Aus regs in such circumstances.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Hypothetical RA-Aus question regarding any (RA1) restricted airspace that is KNOWN to be currently Inactive.If a transponder equipped 24 rego aircraft with a Pilot Certificate holder in command wishes to transit this airspace:

 

A) Can they do so under current regulations?

 

B) if so, MUST they contact ATC prior to entry knowing it to be inactive?

 

For the record, I always plan around all Restricted airspace, though I'm just not 100% clear on RA-Aus regs in such circumstances.

If it is not active it is not restricted and any RAAus aircraft and pilot can enter. There is no need for 24 rego or transponder. You just have to be sure. Suggest a check on line or with ATC just before entering and monitor appropriate frequency. It makes no difference if it is RA1, RA2 or RA3, when they are inactive they generally revert to class G.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

I'm with you on that dsam, I generally give restricted airspace a wide berth but in some places there is no practical alternative.

 

As you probably know, Class C and D airspace are inactive outside tower hours.

 

One place that looks tricky to get past is Nowra. I haven't tried it yet but may need to get from Moruya past Nowra to Victor 1. I need to research it but I had heard the restricted areas are inactive on weekends. Anyone know for sure? I'll have a look this weekend and see.

 

If it were up to me, I'd move the airbases inland to places like Tamworth an Wagga. Crazy to have them within shelling distance of the coast and they'd be much more cost effective if inland.

 

I know Nowra is/was the base for the fleet air arm but do we even have one of those any more?

 

 

[dsam]

If it were up to me, I'd move the airbases inland to places like Tamworth an Wagga. Crazy to have them within shelling distance of the coast and they'd be much more cost effective if inland.

I know Nowra is/was the base for the fleet air arm but do we even have one of those any more?

Interestingly, years ago I landed at Tindal (as a passenger with a PPL in his VH piper) when Tindal was inactive restricted airspace. As you suggest, such wide open spaces are ideal for supersonic fighter training, in my opinion. Granted, it is a remote place to spend any time living, but why should the military tie up so much vital urban airspace.

 

 

[mothra]

To answer the original post, expect no significant change for recreational and sport aviation.

 

The core of the program is procuring a single ATM system to replace the two end of life systems (TAAATS and ADATS) which don't interface with each other: economies of scale, contingency capability, integration, all those sorts of arguments. Civil and RAAF ATC will still operate their own airspace, just using essentially the same kit and no planned reduction in ATC numbers.

 

There is a lot of talk about what such a system could do but no clear understanding of what will actually be delivered yet. Anyone old enough to remember what was promised from TAAATS? All sounds very similar.

 

As far as access to PRD airspace goes, Defence position is that they have made as many concessions as they believe they can without compromising capability: adding RA status, cancelling some under-utilised R areas and changing the default activation from 'Active unless deactivated by NOTAM' to "Deactive unless Activated by NOTAM" wherever they could. We are a long way from the concept of airspace as a national asset whose use is allocated dynamically on the basis of greatest benefit for the users.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Not strictly on thread but I saw a program on the ABC last night "How we got to here" or something similar. They were looking at Time and the establishment of the system we have now with UTC. We got a brief look inside the Tower of London or more correctly, the Tower of Heathrow and I was surprised ad delighted to see it was much more automated (computerised) and use friendly than the old system of tiles being moved around by hand. I have no idea which is the better system but hopefully somebody has finally come up with an advance over the old manual system.

 

I can see the practical reliability of the tiles and they do seem to have had a good safety record but it does look like a process that could have been used effectively to control chariot traffic on the Via Appia.

 

 

[Bevan]

With all the navigation programmes / restricted / military active status should be shown automatically - no need to go to naips and type in each restricted code..

Thats exactly what we do in AvPlan.

 

 

[ayavner]

One place that looks tricky to get past is Nowra. I haven't tried it yet but may need to get from Moruya past Nowra to Victor 1. I need to research it but I had heard the restricted areas are inactive on weekends. Anyone know for sure? I'll have a look this weekend and see.

Don, I've done just that - from Moruya, straight up and over, with no issues. It was a weekend, and it was inactive, but a quick call on the area frequency and ATC were more than happy to re-confirm that for me.