Admin Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Let's get this forum started in the final design and development of the Millennium Master with an easy one. Most aircraft in our rec flying arena are center stick that we fly with the left hand however the Jab as we know is flown by the right hand - is it the throttle in the older 55's between the leg or is that the brake - can't remember. As the Master is tandem seat we can have the throttle and brake levers either on the left or the right which means we can fly either left or right handed. What do you feel is better - throttle/brake on the left or right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I don't think it matters Ian. I have no problem changing hands and for some reason others seem to be the same. Once you know what you are doing it is obvious which is throttle and which is stick. Maybe with one of the short sticks like a Verieezy it could be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flyer40 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I can happily use throttle and stick either way around. With a fresh design I'd suggest you go conventional fighter style with right stick and left throttle. Having said that, if there is a side by side configuration in this airframes future, the other way around would allow for consistency. Ian I really think you're going to loose points with hand brakes. And it's certain to be an avoidable source of criticism by reviewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 stick in the right hand, throttle, flaps/spoilers and gear in the left and differential toe brakes. electric trim switch built into the top of the stick. ppt on the left side of the stick and auto pilot switch on the right side of the stick. when the pressure is on everything needs to be easy to reach. ozzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galpin Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I'm with Ozzie on this one. I say that because in my limited flying experience (Jabiru LSA), the stick is in the right hand and throttle in the left. Of course the throttle for me is below the seat. FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share Posted November 20, 2007 That would be good - have everything on the stick - what about a joystick on the side like the airbus have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share Posted November 20, 2007 The master currently has a fixed seat as they are a part of the structure and adjustable pedals. I personally prefer toe brakes so I will speak to them and see how hard it will be to have toe brakes for Australia - if that is what you think would be better in "our" aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I prefer to fly with the stick in my left hand for a simple reason. I'm right handed and whenever I'm doing cross country, I write notes in a flight log. If it's bumpy (usually) it is a pain to write notes left handed if you've a stick in the right hand. If I'm doing local work, I'm not fussed on which way around the sticks are. Most of my time is in GA, where the yoke was in the left hand and the throttle on the right, in saying that, I'm now flying jabas and have had no problems.......the throttle between the legs caught me out for a bit in the LSA though :;)2: Regards Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Control position. This is not the simple question it would appear. I'll do the easy one first. 1. All real aeroplanes have differential toe brakes. Anything else is more or less, weird. 2. My initial impulse was to go traditional ie. Chipmunk, but maybe there's more to it. You would go standard configuration, if there was such a thing. A lot of it is to do with getting in and out of the plane,& cost. (You always scratch your leg on the PTT. on the Gazelle, if you wear shorts) The centre stick on the Jab., and Victa, save money by that feature. You are a tandem so put it in the middle, so at least you can change hands, when you want to do things. Forget that Airbus side stick. It has the advantage of making it easier to eat your crew meal on a tray. Not applicable to RAAus types. 3. A few points. The co-pilot has everything the opposite of the PIC., in a multi-crewed side-by side. This approximates the trainer layout. (perhaps a co-incidence?), with the stick (wheel) in the right hand, and EVERYTHING accessed by the left, but most importantly, the throttles. When later on the pilot moves to the left seat, (always the command seat, except some helecopters) everything is changed, and no-one complains about it. ( Regards Ian) Nev... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I've been backward and forward with this in my mind. My initial was the fighter style: stick right throttle left. But I actually see a lot of benefit in having it the other way around. Most people (sorry but this is true) are right handed and having your right hand free to do things is useful. I am against side sticks in an a/c like this. If you have trim on the top of the stick then be very careful. The two button setup like the Tecnams is hopeless. I have to use my other hand to trim the a/c as my hand is too big to get at the piddly buttons. It's slow and awkward. Far rather have the rim down low on the side near my right hand. If you must have a stick top trim then have a conical hat trim switch like the Hughes 300c helicopter among others. that also allows for aileron trim if you have it. As Nev says, (paraphrasing) real men don't care which hand the stick is in ;-) Most of the rest of us do though. Stick left throttle right. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest disperse Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I'm left handed, and have only ever been in a jab. But I can't wait for a center stick. I've never flown one but I just want one. Now if I couldn't have a center stick I would've have said LEFT......until I read Flyers post.. But them I'm a truck driver, and have had a stick in my left hand for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 22, 2007 Author Share Posted November 22, 2007 Sounds like left hand stick and right hand throttle is the way to go then - I will let them know in Italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sypkens Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Ian, Just wondering if it is possible to design it so you have the option of both? Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 No complaints. Mike, I was a little tongue -in cheek. I don't know about REAL men, I was thinking that the extra money and the ability to make your very own mistakes, (not suffer somebody elses),more than compensates. On a more serious note, I can't ever remember it being a problem on conversion and instructors have to swap around all the time. Where a pilot has flown ONE aeroplane exclusively,and familiarity has become a big part of the operation, there is sometimes a "flashback" to an action or feel, which was related to the previous aircraft. This is of course, potentially dangerous. As an example, Pilot's eye height at the flare on a Citation is a lot different to that on a B747, or a Drifter and a Storch. You have to remember which one you're in....Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Ian, Sypkens idea is probably the best, it shouldnt be hard to make it optional. Of the tandem types that I know about, all are left throttle - Yak 52, Stearman, Tiger moth, Piper cub/Supercub, Husky, Pitts special, Decathalon, Citabriea and of course the Drifter. HPD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Ker Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Off topic Nev raises a good point... "As an example, Pilot's eye height at the flare on a Citation is a lot different to that on a B747, or a Drifter and a Storch. You have to remember which one you're in....Nev". I'm just curious what would be the key points that you would look for to tell whether your in a B747 ... or a Drifter !! Mathew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I'm just curious what would be the key points that you would look for to tell whether your in a B747 ... or a Drifter !! Mathew Come on Mathew, Drifters have a wheel at the back and 747s have a wheel at the front.....:yuk: :) regards Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I'd be interested in comments from drivers of the large iron. However my observation would be that this issue of "what height to flare" is a small plane drivers' story. It is much easier in our aircraft to judge the height of the flare than in big iron. I watch my mates with years of experience in big a/c and they step into a little RA a/c and grease it on first time. One mate last year in Italy - the pilot watching over us had no English whatsoever - mate says "tell him it's 20 years since I flew anything with a MTOW under 400 tonne (absolutely true). The Italian was very concerned but my mate pulled off absolute greasers from start to finish. On the other hand me sitting in the cockpit of a B744 going into LA (strictly a spectator). On final Bitchin Betty calls "100" and then there's a bump. "What's that?" I say to myself and then realise that we've landed. Towering Cu and Howard Hughes where are you? What do you reckon? Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Mike, I was a little tongue -in cheek. ....Nev G'day Nev, and I had my tongue so far into my cheek I was in danger of biting it off Kind regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Bump? Mike ,What's this "bump" business? Never felt that. Nev... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Mike ,What's this "bump" business? Never felt that. Nev... Never anything other than a very little one - able to be felt by a sensitive fellow like me. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Decca Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Mike I don't know where the jet-setters are but the NFP on B767 used to call "50feet" off the radio altimeter on late final. Regards, Decca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Longden Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Getting back to controls.... The Tecnam has left hand on stick, right on throttle. braking is by a separate lever on the floor console. Harking back to the flights in the Gazelle, it was the same, except with toe brakes. My mate Johns' Bushby Mustang 2 has the same scheme.. as does Cessna and Piper.... so why not keep it to the same standard? Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 My 2c - centre stick, throttle on the left - I'd suggest that for a tandem arrangement this would be standard and suit the majority (80%) of potential owners. The "standard" referred to above also refers to "side by side" seating arrangement where a single throttle control in the centre is a simpler engineering solution for training aircraft. Cheers, Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towering Cu Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I'd be interested in comments from drivers of the large iron. Towering Cu and Howard Hughes where are you? What do you reckon? Regards Mike G'day Mike. Sorry, been away for a few days. I've kept out of this debate as like your friend, it has been 12 years since I've flown GA (let alone Rec Flying!!) However, since you ask... Having Instructed many years ago I believe most people can transition from one hand to the other fairly quickly without much difficulty. My flying for the last 12 years has been from the right hand seat (ahhh seniority) and I feel very comfortable flying with my right hand on a control column or control stick, and left hand on throttle. Some hours on a Decathlon many years ago and a couple in a Pitts and this layout again very comfortable for a tandem seat aircraft. I would agree with Matt's opinion above and feel that centre stick and left hand throttle would be my preferred option. Regards, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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