Garfly Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) The first shot of this video about the accident is as moving as it is rare: a static wide shot of a peaceful winter landscape - almost like a painting - then an ominous digital zoom directs our gaze to the distant cloud base and we suddenly get it, it's a moving picture ... http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/01/piper-pa-23-250-aztec-e-n14372-fatal.html Edited May 3, 2021 by Garfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 WHY did this pilot make this departure? WHY....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted May 3, 2021 Author Share Posted May 3, 2021 Reportedly, he'd planned to complete the flight in VMC - though he was IFR rated - and that still looked do-able at take-off. Maybe another case of (even) experienced instrument flyers losing it when caught in a sudden unexpected white-out. He was a very talented and well loved surgeon, by all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, Garfly said: Reportedly, he'd planned to complete the flight in VMC - though he was IFR rated - and that still looked do-able at take-off. Maybe another case of (even) experienced instrument flyers losing it when caught in a sudden unexpected white-out. He was a very talented and well loved surgeon, by all accounts. Poor time of day to depart, ICE? should have made him think about it...... Like all these events with a sad outcome, there are never any winners and in this case good medical talent has been lost, that saddens me....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted May 3, 2021 Author Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) I suppose most pilots think that if they remain in VMC then ice is not going to be a big problem, but as this PPrune post shows, that ain't always the case. https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/216307-ice-warning-vmc-below-freezing-level.html Edited May 3, 2021 by Garfly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 I think maybe people think that ICE is only for big planes mainly 🙂. It’s almost a science, watched an Air Crash Investigations episode yesterday about icing on the wings of ATR series aircraft and the fact that de-icing boots on leading edge of wings did not work in some cases. Ice formed at the back of the wings from micro droplets of water ice built up just in front of the ailerons. This caused a massive vortex that affected the ailerons, pulling the controls from the pilots hands. In some cases control could not be regained and the aircraft crashed. There was even a time that the pilots collectively refused to fly them, what’s that tell you? Whilst it was not actually said.......wing design was a problem. How to fix? just mandate restricted flying conditions for the aircraft......that was a bandaid job, if ever there was one:-(. FAA should have grounded them all and made Aerospiatle design new wings and retrofit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 He should've stuck with operating on people, rather than operating aircraft. The lack of airmanship shown in this crash is astounding - even more so, seeing as the pilot was reputedly IFR qualified! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Ice can be tricky. I've been there and lucky to survive. Met forecast NIL icing. Not the first forecast to be way out. Most knowledge of icing is found out the hard way on basic planes. On a Jet you just switch on the de-icers and use engine bleed air and extra fuel. Your speed through the air warms it over 30C degrees. . Leading edge "puffer" boots often just crack it and extra ice builds over it. Clear ice can form below a cloud from supercooled droplets. Nev 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F10 Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) Also, difference between “anti” and “de” ice. Anti ice, heated leading edges, pitot tubes, need to be on before icing. De-ice, like boots, need to be only used after ice build up, to break it off in chunks, use boots too early, and you will just end up with nice clear boots, whilst ice rapidly builds immediately behind the boots. Best option, get out of the height band or avoid as far as possible I reckon. Edited May 11, 2021 by F10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 The puffer leading edge things actually don't work that well. What you quote is the theory. Even quite thick ice just bulges up and cracks a bit then more Ice just builds up over it unaffected by the boots action.. The roughened surface plays hell with the stall speed Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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