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My first lesson tomorrow - Questions.


Guest Cralis
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Hi guys,

 

Tomorrow, I fly! Quite (overly) excited. I'm only on page 108 (Out of 375!) on my BAK though. Just finished the bit about fuel, oils and engines. I must admit, I did read, but didn't over read the bit about variable pitched props.

 

The things I am battling to understand are these Magneto things still. I guess if my instructor shows them to me tomorrow, I might understand, but I am not certain what they do. Does anyone have a simple answer? Are they there to provide the spark to the spark plug at the right time? And... if there are 2 magneto switches... both on, are there two sprk plugs in one cylinder being sparked at the same time?

 

Then, if you find water in your tanks - is that the fuel ruined, or can the fuel be drained... the water removed and the fuel returned to the tanks?

 

And there seems to be an area in the fuel tank where any dirt may settle. Sump, or something. Would the water not 'fall' into that, and not really cause an issue? I know water in tanks are bad, I'm just wondering why.

 

And finally, one of the checks mentioned in my book is to ensure the right fuel is in the tanks. How do you check that!?

 

Really looking forward tomorrow. class room from 09h00 to 10h00... then maybe some ground stuff to maybe 10h30, then an hours flight. I'm not sure if we will start barrel rolls and loops tomorrow, but.. we'll see. 010_chuffed.gif.c2575b31dcd1e7cce10574d86ccb2d9d.gif

 

 

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You are spot on with the magnetos, 2 magnetos and 2 spark plugs per cylinder. each magneto runs a separate spark plug in each cylinder, and as you will see, during the runup checks both magnetos will be checked to make sure each separate magneto and its plugs are all working.

 

if i find water in the fuel drain in the morning, i will drain the tank, and reuse the fuel after putting it through a water separator filter..

 

and yes, each tank has a sump so it will collect water and other gunk in it so you can drain it out when doing the walk around checks. though some aircraft, such as the tecnam have a water separator fuel filter and dont have the sump in each tank.

 

 

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Guest Mad Dave

Hey Craig,

 

Exciting times ahead!!

 

There are 2 plugs in each cylinder, which provides a more even fuel burn, as well as having the added bonus of a safety back up.

 

If there is water in the fuel you can "drain it away" as the fuel will always sit on top, and the drain is at the lowest point.

 

The fuel should be blue

 

Don't sweat it too much though, your instructor will talk you through everything! You don't want to be concentrating on the details too much, and miss out on just enjoying the early stages of learning to fly.

 

Dave

 

 

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G'day Craig,

 

I sure you will enjoy your first lesson tomorrow...:thumb_up:

 

And I'm sure we all look forward to hearing how you go....!!

 

You probably understand about the magneto's now from the other guys, but just to show you what they look like in real life, I came across a photo that I took of a Jabiru 2200 four cylinder engine.... I know you will be flying in a Tecnam, with a Rotax 912 in it no doubt, but it's still a 4 cylinder, and works in the same way.....

 

The wiggly circles are around the magneto's or distributor's... and the two arrows show the two leads going to each cylinder... which there is two cylinders on each side...

 

Cheers,

 

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I just scanned some pages out of my Jim Davis book, I don't know how your book explains the magneto's, but this is pretty simple and easily understood version... well I reckon it is anyway...;)

 

I don't know how it will turn out, you may have to print it out on a full page to be able to read the writing... anyway i will leave that up to you....:big_grin:

 

Cheers...

 

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Thanks Tomo!

 

Now I see! :)

 

My instructor called me this evening confirming tomorrows lesson. I think he said that the Tecnam Echo doesn't have Magnetos!? Is that right? Or should I say ... Did I hear him correctly??

 

 

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Thanks Tomo!Now I see! :)

My instructor called me this evening confirming tomorrows lesson. I think he said that the Tecnam Echo doesn't have Magnetos!? Is that right? Or should I say ... Did I hear him correctly??

Ah, Yeah.... It would probably have Dual electronic ignition...!! but it will switch off/on like every things else, so don't worry to much about that....

 

Sorry for the confusion....:confused:

 

Tom

 

 

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I am shattered (in the tired sence)........

 

What a day! 1st offial lesson down.

 

Had an hour and a bit in the classroom on primary and secondary control effects. The hardest one seems to be the throttle and what else happens besides increased thrust!

 

Wow!

 

Then, I did the walk around and got to refuel the Tecnam Echo. Went through the checklist with my instructor (Zane, today). I got to taxi the aircraft to the runway, and then Zane took us up. We flew out towards Moreton Bay and flew over the water a bit, and up over the beaches. The started putting what I had learnt in the class into practise. Man, there's a lot to take in. Increase throttle and the plane yaws... rudder, and the nose drops and you start getting close to a dive/spin.

 

Was amazing, but by 40 minutes in, I was hammered... The hard part for me is keeping the atitude right. I find ir hard to keep the nose at the right position without having drawn a small dot on the windscreen to know if I was too nose up or down.

 

Also, I flew with the left wing down a lot.. and ended up nearly empying the right wing. :( I thought I was OK, but.. I wasn't.

 

In the last 10 minutes, I started feeling queezy... :yuk:

 

Damn, I was hoping that wouldn't happen. But it was VERY bumpy up there today. I hear I can get tablets to try help, but it could be a problem. After landing, I was OK, but it was 2 or 3 minutes before flaps down when I felt it. I wasn't flying at that point.

 

Overall, it was spolit a bit by feeling queezy, but it was great. I was doing OK keeping the plane straight when he was playing with the throttle, demonstrating the yaw and lift effect when you add throttle.

 

Again, I felt I wasn't using my feet much, but I think the point was that the rudder is really a balancing tool, while the ailerons are used to turn the aircraft by banking and then letting the secondary yaw effect turn the aircraft. Rudder to keep it balanced. Right?

 

Any tricks on knowing if you're nose high or low when trying to maintain straight and level? The Echo seems to fly very nose down...

 

I got to use the pitch buttons on thr control tick to try help, but... it's not easy!

 

Great fun though. Learnt a lot, but I have never been this tired. I am stuffed!!! 071_yawn.gif.43c7f5f86675fec124ffe33bd2e896f0.gif Gonna sleep a bit now. :)

 

Again, conditions were OK. Maybe 2/8 cloud and pretty windy and bumpy - so I blame my queezyness on that. :)

 

 

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Tired. I am not surprised as it is a steep learning curve. You will probably get over the queasiness, once you are more in control. I used to get seasick when I was crewing a yacht offshore, but never when i was skipper, even in gale force winds. Keep away from the seasickness pills unless you have to use them, they will make you drowsy, and if you do need to use them and they make you drowsy, look for another brand that may not have the effect on you.

 

 

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Good on ya Craig:thumb_up::thumb_up:

 

Day's of anticipation and concentration, and now you can relax a bit... (first time is always the most nerve racking, because your not really shore what's happening).... and what happens...your body thinks so too... ZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

Cheers,

 

Tom

 

 

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Any tricks on knowing if you're nose high or low when trying to maintain straight and level? The Echo seems to fly very nose down...

Craig , if you are trying to maintain straight and level then there will only be one nose "attitude" that will maintain that. if your nose is too high you will climb, if it too low you will descend. But it will be slightly different every time depending on the the weight of the plane and crew , configuration ( ie flaps or not ) and throttle setting. The easiest way to tell whether you are level is to glance at the VSI ( vertical speed indicator)., thats if you have one , othewise you just have to use the altimeter. Once you find that attitude that gives you zero vertical speed you use the trim to set it so you dont need any forward or backward pressure on the stick, then it sort of just holds itself.

 

Dont worry too much about it, it will come easily ( compared to landing that is )

 

 

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Thanks Tezza.

 

Looking at the VSI is OK? I wasn't sure. I think there is a 4 second lag or something. So, what I need to do (This is a quyestion, not a statement) is change what ever I have needed to change (Maybe direction or altitude) and then get the plane back to where I think it should be based on the view out of the window.

 

Once I think I am back to staight and level, I then check the VSI to see if this is true?

 

Would that be a suitable/recommended tecnique?

 

Once I had the marker on the windscreen, I was doing OK. It was turbulant, so we were being thrown around a bit and I was fighting a lot. My mistake, I was told was that I was constantly trying to keep the aircraft staright, with lots of small movements. I was told to make larger movements, less of the time. Like, to get the wings level... move the stick side ways... hold it there until we have wings level, then then center. I was 'bumping' it to get right...Hard to explain. And not quite sure why I was doing it wrong.

 

There were a few times he told me to do something, and I would nail it - but wasn't sure HOW I did it.... I'd then say, 'Can we do that again - I was a bit lost', and he'd say that he thought I did it very well. 031_loopy.gif.e6c12871a67563904dadc7a0d20945bf.gif Maybe I'm a natural!! :)

 

Throttle secondary effects: Am I right in saying that with a RPM > cruise RPM (Take off and climbs), the aircraft will experience a left yaw (because of the airflow being spun up against the left side of the fin, pushing the nose to the left)?

 

And then conversly, a reduction in power below (in my aircraft's case, 5000RPM) will cause a right yaw because of the slight offset of the engine pointing slightly right to allow stable flight at 5000rpm?

 

Or have I got it the wrong way round. (Note: Tecnam has the normal clockwise prop)

 

 

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Graig, well done mate, the first is out of the way and now you can forget it and really start to learn. First off I would say that you're trying too hard. Get your trim right (use VSI) and then you don't have to worry about nose attitude. Even in rough weather, it'll come back by itself. Let the a/c fly itself out of minor disturbances, because in these early day of your training, you're going to be soo far behind the plane, you'll end up over correcting. When you come to the landing stage, it's totally different and you really need to be on the ball. But hey, that's a way off yet. Well a couple of hours maybe. 006_laugh.gif.0f7b82c13a0ec29502c5fb56c616f069.gif You'll get there, very few of us found the first hours easy.

 

 

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I cringe when I hear this sticker / dot on the windscreen thing as a sight point for reference. It’s an old UK driving instructor “technique” used when teaching pupils reverse around left corner for the driving test.

 

It may result in a focus inside the cabin which is as much use as putting ashtrays on motor bikes. IMO it is down right dangerous and if extended in the pupils mind as a technique for landing cause all kinds of wandering on the roll out.

 

John

 

 

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As regards the trim, the Tecnam beautiful machine that they are, can be harder to learn trim techniques on than say a Jab or Gazelle. Any of them I have flown have electric push button trim so you don’t get a feel as easy as you might with a conventional wheel or lever. You may finish up chasing the trim oscillating above and below level flight and maybe even trying to get the indicator centre / neutral rather than level flight

 

 

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Guest drizzt1978

As i am about 6-7 hours in to my lessons I can relate to everything. There is a real art to useing the instruments and your gut and the horizon. I still have a tenedency to vary up and down by about 50ft a minute or worse!!! But every lesson it has gotten much better. Then You start to not be so nervous and can process the instruments and all the input from your senses. The first lesson I felt a bit nervous/quaesy. And i always feel weird for the first 500ft then i just start to grin!!!!

 

Have fun!!!! :thumb_up::thumb_up:

 

 

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Guest pelorus32

G'day Cralis and congratulations,

 

yesterday must have been a big day - first lesson for you and a successful pilot certificate test and GPPP exam for my daughter who has just turned 17.

 

Now for a few thoughts. There's a very good reason why the first few lessons are best done in still air. You've got too much going on to have to cope with some turbulence. You can't learn about S&L flight if you are wondering around in turbulence. Plus a bit of anxiety/excitement, a few bumps and a hot day can all add up to some queasiness. That will pass but it's worth trying to do these first few lessons in the calmest part of the day - usually the early morning.

 

As for the feeling of being absolutely knackered afterwards - we've all felt that. Your workload is very high - you're doing the equivalent of walking and chewing gum and at this point of proceedings you can only really manage one. Slowly it will come to you and things will start to become automatic. Then your instructor will add a little more to your workload so that really for about the first 15 - 20 hours this feeling of being knackered will continue to some degree. But it does get better and by the time you get your certificate you can be sure you will be wondering what all the fuss was about. But even at that point there's heaps more to learn.

 

Best of luck and keep telling us about it.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

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Hey mate I am also just starting out but I can answer a few of your Q's there are two magneto's and two sets of spark plugs both set operating at the same time so if one fails the engine still runs.

 

The water in the fuel does not ruin all the fuel but can be drained off and the fuel tanks are shaped to accomodate that with the test and bleed valves at the bottom, if water gets through the system into your carby it has the ability to stop the engine as it is heavier than fuel and does not burn and you only have one carby, no spare!!!

 

As for the right fuel well they refer to the correct octain fuel either avgas or mogas (good quality premium 95 ron or higher can be used in some engines) and you can tell by colour and if you are uncertain what is in a jerry can then do not use for anything but lawn mowing.

 

I am sure you will love your first flight mate!!! take it easy.041_helmet.gif.78baac70954ea905d688a02676ee110c.gif:yin_yan:

 

 

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On the airsickness issue, don't let it worry you - for the vast majority of people it goes away pretty quickly. Try and book your flights either early in the morning or in the late afternoon (5ish etc) when there is still plenty of daylight, but everything is cooling off a bit.

 

You can also try taking some ginger tablets (ginger travelcalms are good - avoid blackmoore's as they have bugger all ginger) but most people prefer ginger beer. Have a bottle of a good brand (bundaberg etc) about an hour before flight. As an added bonus to the ginger beer method you get to belch in a very impressive manner, which small children can find hilarious. Extra points for singing the alphabet song while belching.

 

If you do go with the ginger tablets take them about 40 minutes to an hour before flight to give them time to work.

 

 

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Guest Mad Dave

I agree with Sain, get on the ginger pills, they helped me out when I first started, but after about 10 hours worth of flying I never got the queasy feelig again, even in very bumpy conditions. Don't let it get to you!!

 

 

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I noted you said that the effect on yaw was increased when you increased rpm, say in a climb. Is this increased in these RA machines than say in a cherokee?

 

I am going to be doing my first flight in a Jabiru (previously only flown cherokees) and didn't realise it had that much of an effect? THe only time you get major yaw on the cherokee is after a touch and go.

 

Cheers,

 

Shags

 

 

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Hi Craig, well done on your first lesson, by now your probably hangin out for the next lesson;). Just a thought though, you've chosen a very good instructor so concentrate 100% on what he is teaching you as you may find reading and talking to others (even though there is a lot of good stuff here) could end up confusing you at this early stage. I've only recently got my certificate and one thing I found useful was to sit in my car after the lesson and hand write half a dozen or so key points about the flight and what I'd been taught. This would only take 10 or 15 minuites and then put that in my study notes for future referance and my own pre-flight briefings.

 

So in the meantime keep on studying BAK and Air Legislation etc and enjoy the ride:thumb_up:.

 

I can tell you for sure though, flying training was one of the most rewarding challenges I have ever put myself through.....just luved it.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

 

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